From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:27:59 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:27:41 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 01:42:35 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!mintaka!olivea!spool.mu.edu!think.com!news.bbn.com!hsdndev!husc-news.harvard.edu!zariski!zeleny From: zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Misha and Raisa (was re: MS Gorborchov ?) Message-Id: <1991Aug21.002213.2704@husc3.harvard.edu> Date: 21 Aug 91 04:22:11 GMT References: <1991Aug20.143643.210@husky1.stmarys.ca> Organization: Harvard University Dept. of Mathematics Lines: 29 Nntp-Posting-Host: zariski.harvard.edu Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO In article <1991Aug20.143643.210@husky1.stmarys.ca> smuss@husky1.stmarys.ca writes: >So what do you guys think has happened to MS Gorbechev ? They locked her together with her husband, in order to break his willpower. Misha is expected to crumble after the jillionth "I told you so!"... Incidentally, in order to alleviate the spelling problem, I recommend translating Misha's last name into English. "Humpy", we hardly knew ya... >-- > SMUSS@Husky1.Stmarys.Ca | BREAD IS THE TRUE > The Saint Marys University | OPIATE > Sociology Society | OF THE MASSES > --------------------------------------------------- /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ | ``If there are no Platonic ideals, then what did we fight for?'' | | (A Spanish anarchist, after 1938) | | Mikhail Zeleny Harvard | | 872 Massachusetts Ave., Apt. 707 doesn't | | Cambridge, Massachusetts 02139 think | | (617) 661-8151 so | | email zeleny@math.harvard.edu or zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu | \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:30:22 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:30:01 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 01:44:15 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!mintaka!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi!caen!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!zeus.unomaha.edu!oneil From: oneil@zeus.unomaha.edu Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: The storm is over... Message-Id: <20277.28b31387@zeus.unomaha.edu> Date: 22 Aug 91 07:29:42 GMT Lines: 16 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Is it okay to post again to talk.politics.soviet? I hope that our Soviet friends can once again join in dialogue with us here now that the storm has passed. :-) I cried last night as I watched the violence on television and I was overcome with joy this morning when I heard that the people had won! -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sharon Lindsey O'Neil "I could be happy/I could be quite naive/ Bitnet: oneil@unomai1 It's only me and my shadow/Happy in our Internet: oneil@zeus.unomaha.edu make believe/Soon." -- Tears for Fears ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:30:57 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:30:40 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 01:44:34 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!news.funet.fi!hydra!fuug!mcsun!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!bionet!ig!convex.com!rdavis From: rdavis@CONVEX.COM (Ray Davis) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Slovenia: Hard-liners ousted in Moscow - what about Belgrade ? Message-Id: <9108220919.AA06040@presto.ig.com> Date: 22 Aug 91 07:25:10 GMT Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" Lines: 140 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Date: 21 Aug 91 23:13 From: Miso.Alkalaj@ijs.ac.mail.yu Subject: Hard-liners ousted in Moscow - what about Belgrade ? VMSmail To information: @OUT.DIS Sender's personal name: V.Alkalaj,IJS-Comp.Centre,(+38)(61)214399 ext.666 Dear Friend, The world breathes a little easier tonight - the hard-line Communist coup d'etat in the USSR seems to have been foiled. While democracy and peace seem to be winning in the USSR, fighting continues in Croatia; the Federal Presidency has been meeting in Belgrade for the last two days, the presidents of individual republics attended the session - but there seems to be little progress towards peace or eventual peacefull negotiations. I hope that the events in Moscow will have a positive impact on Yugoslavia: Mr. Markovic/Mr. Milosevic/YPA have many times boasted that their policies enjoy the full support of the "Socialist oriented circles in the USSR" (in fact, Mr. Markovic returned from his last visit to Moscow with offers of military aid); with the hard-line support from USSR (most probably) gone, Mr. Milosevic, Mr. Markovic and the YPA may soon be ready for some serious negotiations (the glitch is that they haven't displayed such type of rationality in the past). In many ways, Yugoslavia has been compared to the USSR - in fact, I have hear oppinions that the US and EEC's handling of the Yu crisis was at least partly an "in-vivo" trial of the methods to be used in handling the USSR problems. True, Yugoslavia, like the USSR, is (was) a multi-ethnic community, with a firmly imbeded communist legacy, kept together more or less by force; in both countries tha army was an important, conservative political force and political liberalisation brought inter-ethnic strife. However, the failed coup d'etat in USSR proved that parallels were only superficial. The Yugoslave federal Prime-Minister Mr. Markovic was in many ways compared to Mr. Gorbachev - but the resemblance is only apparent: both presented the West with their own versions of state transformation to democracy and market economy, and both expected financial and technical aid - but the motives were entirely different. Mr. Markovic was in the reform business only for his own personal power and ego, had always cooperated with (or even used) the conservative YPA as much as he could and did absolutely nothing for the democratic process - the democracy, as much as it is present in Yugoslavia, was introduced by (and forced on) leaderships of individual republics; above all, Mr. Markovic faught the autonomy of republics all the way, seeking to gather even more power within his central governement. On the other hand, Mr. Gorbachev was also forced to appease his own conservatives quite often, but he managed nevertheless to curb their power considerably. He brought Glasnost to the USSR, liberated Soviet satelite states and was instrumental to the preparation of the new Federal agreement, which transferes considerable power to the republics (the signing which the puchists tried to prevent). Mr. Gorbachev was "taken ill" because he refused to cooperate with the hard-liners, while Mr. Markovic signed the order that sent YPA units rampaging through Slovenia. The Perestrojka, Mr. Gorbachev's economic and organisational reform did not save USSR from impending economic collapse (and may have helped to speed it up - though it could hardly be said to have caused it) - while Mr. Markovic brought Yu economy to its knees with his "bold" (experimetalistic is probably a better word) monetary measures. While the backlash of the unavoidable economic reforms impoverishes the citizens of USSR even more, Mr. Gorbachev may not be remembered as a "good guy", but he will enter word history as a visionary who forced USSR to break with its past - for better or worse. On the other hand, Mr. Markovic will be remembered as the man who tried to impede the course of democracy and helped a great deal to the start of the civil war - while wrecking the economy in the process. People who see similarities between Gorbachev and Markovic tend to draw the other parallel: Yeltsin/Russia - Milosevic/Serbia - and nothing could be further from the truth. Yeltsin and Milosevic may both have started their careers as minor Party officials, but Mr. Yeltsin went on to leave the Party and to win the ellections as a neutral candidate - while Mr. Milosevic achieved leadership of Serbian Communist Party, painted it over with socialist colors and won the elections as a Party - i.e., "continuity" - candidate. Mr. Yeltsin set out to break the Party strong-hold on the economy and organisation of Russia by barring the Party from companies - while Mr. Milosevic replaced competent managers with his obedient Party henchmen. But above all, Mr. Yeltsin contributed actively to the lessening of ethnic tension in the USSR; Russians as the largest nation were naturaly percieved as opressors and a danger to (nationalistically-inspired) democratic processes in the republics - and Russian minorities were put under severe preassure, even physical attack, in some republics. Yet Mr. Yeltsin did not call on his people "to defend their brothers" but actually supported the autonomy-pursuing leaderships of Lithania, Latvia, Estonia, etc - which immediately relieved the preassure on Russian minorities, since they were no longer percieved as a threat to eventual secession. On the other hand, Mr. Milosevic whipped Serbs into a nationalistic frenzy, convinced them that Serbs were threatened everywhere by everybody, and supplied arms and "volounteers" for a first strike against their enemies. And while Mr. Yeltsin put up barricades against a conservative coup d'etat, Mr. Milosevic has called for a YPA intervention several times and supported it wholeheartedly when it finaly came; while Mr. Yeltsin made Russians into the most popular nation in USSR, defenders of democracy and human rights - Mr. Milosevic made Serbs into the most hated people in Yugoslavia, and international parriahs. I expect that most of the USSR will stay together and will, after a lengthy (and tortuous) process of reforms regain an important role in the word; this will be lagerly due to efforts of Mr. Gorbachev and Mr. Yeltsin - and they both also contributed enormously to the word peace. Mr. Gorbachev and Mr. Yeltsin are statesmen, to be remembered in the same class with F.D. Roosevelt, Winston Churchil and Mahatma Ghandi. Yugoslavia is already in a state of civil war and should the present trends persist, I expect Yugoslavia to fall apart violently - and the resultant gaggle of small, quarreling states will be a permanent living definition of the verb "to balkanize". There is no doubt that Mr. Milosevic started the war in Yugoslavia and that Mr. Markovic paved the way - but I do not think these two can aspire even to a Herostrathic fame of a Hitler or Saddam Hussein: I think they will only be remembered as Balkan thugs and intrigators with inflated egos. The US and EEC should definitely reconsider their policies towards Eastern Europe: USSR will have to be offered substancial economic aid (which German Chancelour Mr. Kohl has been advocating for some time) to facilitate transition into market economy; but the policy of moral and political support to the democratic Mr. Gorbachev and Mr. Yeltsin worked. On the other hand, Western support for "territorialy unified Yugoslavia" - which supported the centralistic and conservative policies of Mr. Markovic and Mr. Milosevic - caused a civil war. Isn't the lesson obvious enough ? Regards, Vladimir Alkalaj Head of Computer Centre "Jozef Stefan" Institute Telephone: +38 61 214 399 Jamova 39 Telefax: +38 61 219 385 61111 Ljubljana E-mail: miso.alkalaj@ijs.ac.mail.yu Slovenia (ex-Yugoslavia) From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:31:39 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:31:21 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 01:44:43 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!news.funet.fi!fuug!mcsun!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi!caen!uwm.edu!bionet!ig!vipunen.hut.fi!pjt From: pjt@VIPUNEN.HUT.FI (Pekka J Taipale) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: Great Going, Bush! Message-Id: <9108220924.AA06284@presto.ig.com> Date: 22 Aug 91 09:24:08 GMT Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" Lines: 29 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO In article <1991Aug21.223642.1821@dsd.es.com> galt@scratchy.dsd.es.com (Greg Alt - Perp) writes: >One interesting thing that I noticed is that Bush has been praising Yeltsin, >saying that Yeltsin stopped the coup. He has yet to praise the Russian people >who are the real reason Gorbachev is back. Leaders like to think that the >only important people are the leaders, but in this case it was the millions >of people who opposed the coup that should be praised the most. Also, the >reports that the coup "collapsed" are a little annoying... It was SMASHED by >the people... Of course, the support of the Russian People for democracy was the key factor in overthrowing the coup. But I 'm pretty sure that if there had not been a charismatic leader such as Yeltsin, to take responsibility, to claim leadership, to make convincing speeches, to have a concrete place for the masses to defend (the Russian Federation parlament house), I doubt the resistance to the coup would have been succesful. Masses on the streets are no good if they have no goals, no coordination, no feel of legal and moral righteousness. Yeltsin provided these. We could argue over this forever, but I think that both the Russian people AND it's democratically elected representants, namely Yeltsin and the Russian federation's parlament, were essential in bringing legal leadership back to USSR. -- Pekka Taipale pjt@vipunen.hut.fi From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:33:29 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:33:12 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 01:46:08 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!news.funet.fi!hydra!fuug!demos!relcom!dvv From: dvv@relcom.kiae.su (Dmitry V. Volodin) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: Big Brother Message-Id: <1991Aug22.084512.6857@relcom.kiae.su> Date: 22 Aug 91 08:45:12 GMT References: Organization: Kurchatov Institute of Atomic Energy, Moscow, USSR Lines: 7 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO We had little to lose - just look who was posting and compare it with the very widely available info about the people in charge of USSR Internet connection. Dima. (NIC handle DVV) From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:34:02 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:33:45 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 01:46:56 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!ucsd!network.ucsd.edu!calmasd!jxt From: jxt@calmasd.Prime.COM (Jawahar Tembulkar) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Another Conspiracy Theory..... Message-Id: <3164@calmasd.Prime.COM> Date: 21 Aug 91 17:56:27 GMT Organization: Calma - A Division of Prime Computers, San Diego, CA Lines: 62 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Yet another conspiracy theory goes as follows : * When Yakovlev alleges that a coup is imminent, Gorbachev has some inkling that things are amiss. However, he also under- stands that a major military confrontation with the conservative elements is inevitable. He takes into account that a "coup" is very feasible. To respond to the coup, he has two options. a) To go public and identify those elements that are plotting against him. This is a risky option, as his sources among conservative ranks would be jeopardised. Furthermore, the coup leaders could adopt the deniability defence. Another embarassing fact would be that most of the coup leaders were esconced in present positions in politburo, with his own blessings. b) To let the coup play out to it's logical conclusion. In all likelihood, he probably was able to assure his own security, and that of those close to him ( ideologically ). If violent military crackdown was implemented by the coup leaders, he could in all likelihood either lead a section of the security forces against the conservatives, or as a last resort seek exile. * Yeltsin is approached by the leaders of the coup just before the the coup is being implemented, with promises of greater power for him individually, with a reorganisation of the politburo to reflect non-communist/ex-communist leadership in the USSR. Yeltsin winks at the arrangement, but at the same time does not wish to abandon all his options. * As soon as the disorganised nature of the coup becomes apparent, and certain sections of the armed forces openly come to his defence, Yeltsin is forced to take a stand. This time he comes out openly against the "junta", and declares himself in support of Gorbachev. * The about turn of Yeltsin, the dissent within the ranks of the armed forces, effectively blunts the coup. The coup leaders have shown their hand, and their supportors have stood up and been identified. A return of Gorbachev is imminent, with a massive rally in the red square with Yeltsin by his side. In the past, heads would have rolled. Now the coup participants will in all likelihood recieve assignments for the most menial of jobs in some remote Siberian towns. Regards, Jawa -- * Statutory Disclaimer : These are merely my views. * * Jawahar M. Tembulkar, Computervision, R & D, * * 9805 Scranton Road, San Diego, CA, 92121, USA. * * UUCP : uunet!calmasd!jxt voice : (619) 587-3078 * From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:35:53 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:35:36 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 01:49:08 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!decwrl!sgi!cdp!hmuskat From: cdp!hmuskat Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: Coup? What coup? Message-Id: <1483700015@cdp> Date: 22 Aug 91 05:01:00 GMT References: <14046291@1991Aug21.214504.25244@sat.com> Lines: 6 Nf-Id: #R:1991Aug21.214504.25244@sat.com:-1404629123:cdp:1483700015:000:108 Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!hmuskat Aug 21 22:01:00 1991 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO I think you are on to something & I'll have more to say later. See my post which might follow. Hal Muskat From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:37:37 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:37:21 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 01:51:38 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!wrc.xerox.com!haoxu From: haoxu@wrc.xerox.com (Hao xu) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: USSR's seat in UN Message-Id: <9108211413.AA19342@crystal.wrc.xerox.com> Date: 21 Aug 91 14:13:50 GMT Sender: usenet@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 6 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO My friend told me every republic of USSR has a seat in UN. He also told me USA never accepted these republics as a part of USSR. I can't believe it. Could anyone here tell me the truth? Hao WRC, Xerox From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:38:44 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:38:27 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 01:55:52 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!corton!sophia!sibelius.inria.fr!weigl From: weigl@sibelius.inria.fr (Konrad Weigl) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: Message-Id: <1894@sophia.inria.fr> Date: 22 Aug 91 12:39:59 GMT Sender: news@sophia.inria.fr Organization: INRIA, Sophia-Antipolis (Fr) Lines: 13 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO As far as I know, the Ukraine and Bielorussia (Also called White Russia, although I believe they call themselves Ruthenes) have, besides the USSR itself, their own seat in the UN. None of the other republics, as far as I know. Konrad Weigl Tel. (France) 93 65 78 63 Projet Pastis Fax (France) 93 65 78 58 INRIA-Sophia Antipolis email Weigl@sophia.inria.fr 2004 Route des Lucioles B.P. 109 06561 Valbonne Cedex France From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:39:55 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:39:36 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 01:57:16 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!news.funet.fi!fuug!demos!jvdrd!george From: george@jvd.msk.su (George Tereshko) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: Thanks Message-Id: <1991Aug22.113340.4998@jvd.msk.su> Date: 22 Aug 91 11:33:40 GMT References: <9108220407.AA00408@presto.ig.com> Thanks. Organization: JV Dialogue, Moscow, USSR Lines: 25 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO When then dark night fell upon the Moscow, Relcom was one of source of light for us. Thanks to this brave people we could get information and hope. I would like also thank people running Soviet BBSs (and personaly, Pete Kvitek the sysop of JV Dialogue 1-st BBS) who provided another net for information flow. Soviet netland epic begins. (e.g., I heard of a story when some guys did the following: 1. they got a list of Soviet (?) FAXs 2. they wrote the program to scan the list and send FAXs containing Eltsin decrees (?). 3. they did keep sending during hours (?) end-of-story) Thanks for your solidarity, netters. Net means 'NO' in Russian. 'Net junte' :-) -- George V Tereshko From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:40:33 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:40:16 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 01:57:36 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!spool.mu.edu!samsung!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ucselx!bionet!ig!uga.bitnet!JKELLEY From: JKELLEY@uga.bitnet ("F.Joseph Kelley") Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: USSR's seat in UN Message-Id: <9108221340.AA11512@presto.ig.com> Date: 22 Aug 91 13:30:47 GMT References: Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" Lines: 8 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO I believe George Kennan discussed this in his "memoirs" (can't recall which volume...prob 1)...it was brought up at the formation of the UN...all the republics should have a vote....US said well, sure, and we'll want one for each of the (then) 48 states....an agreement was made that US and SU would have 3 each (I believe Ukraine has one, for example). US has never exercised this option....am sure I'll hear if this is wrong, but will see whether I can find the reference... --Joe Kelley From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:41:09 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:40:49 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 01:58:38 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!s5!joec From: joec@fid.morgan.com (Joe Collins) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: I am swamped with replies...here is how to get a penpal in USSR Message-Id: <1991Aug22.130854.1044@fid.morgan.com> Date: 22 Aug 91 13:08:54 GMT Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY Lines: 70 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO I received a LOT of requests on how to get a soviet penpal. Here is the canned reply I send out that explains exactly how to go about do it. If you have any specific questions, feel free to email me at joec@morgan.com --------------------------------------------------------- Many people asked me how they could establish a 'penpal' relationship with Soviet families. I have been doing this for 2 years now - our friends are in Moscow and are a family of four. We have exchanged photos, stamps, postcards, magazines, nominal amounts of currency and even an audio cassette. We are lucky that they are fairly good in English and usually send both a Russian and English version of their letters. It turns out that many many Soviets apparently know at least some English. I know ZERO Russian but have learned some since we started, mostly with dictionaries. We have found this to be a fun relationship and may plan to visit them someday.... If you are interested and wish to locate a Soviet Family to correspond with, write to: PEACE LINKS 747 8th Street, S.E. Washington, DC 20003 They are a private, nonprofit group that feels having grass roots relationships between private citizens can enhance the chances for peace in the world. They apparently advertised in the Soviet Union looking for interested Soviet families - and received over 4,000 Soviet responses! If you write to Peace Links, indicate who you are and possibly what your interests are - they will try to match you up with a similar Soviet family. Just be prepared to learn a little Russian. We reply in English but always include Russian phrases as well. Peace Links will give you some notes showing some useful Russian phrases to use. In our case, we wrote looking for a boy about my son's age and also indicated we were in our late 30's. The family they chose for us has a boy 2 months younger than my son (now 9 1/2) and a younger sister about 4 years old. The boy is "Grisha" and his sister is "Ana". The parents are Lena and Alexander (also known as Sasha). They are 31 and 40, respectively. Lena is a linquist while Alexander is a biotechnologist. If you need more details or have some questions, you can reach me at: joec@morgan.com Regards and let me know what happens if you write to Peace Links. Joe Collins Morgan Stanley --------------------------------------------------------- I am already getting feedback from people I gave this to in other newsgroups (rec.travel, misc.kids) and the response is very favorable - people are definitely getting penpal relationships set up. GOOD LUCK ...usual disclaimers apply... From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:42:21 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:41:59 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 01:59:32 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!olivea!mintaka!bloom-beacon!bloom-picayune.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!dks From: dks@athena.mit.edu (Dhanesh K Samarasan) Newsgroups: misc.headlines,soc.culture.yugoslavia,alt.activism,talk.politics.soviet,soc.rights.human Subject: Re: Slovenia: Hard-liners ousted in Moscow - what about Belgrade ? Message-Id: <1991Aug22.142933.25635@athena.mit.edu> Date: 22 Aug 91 14:29:33 GMT References: Sender: news@athena.mit.edu (News system) Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Lines: 62 Nntp-Posting-Host: e40-008-9.mit.edu Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO A long and thoughtful posting by V. Alkalaj ends: VA > Yugoslavia is already in a state of civil war VA > and should the present VA > trends persist, I expect Yugoslavia to fall VA > apart violently - and the VA > resultant gaggle of small, quarreling states VA > will be a permanent VA > living definition of the verb "to balkanize". VA > There is no doubt that VA > Mr. Milosevic started the war in Yugoslavia VA > and that Mr. Markovic VA > paved the way - but I do not think these two VA > can aspire even to a VA > Herostrathic fame of a Hitler or Saddam VA > Hussein: I think they will VA > only be remembered as Balkan thugs and VA > intrigators with inflated egos. VA > VA > The US and EEC should definitely reconsider VA > their policies towards VA > Eastern Europe: USSR will have to be offered VA > substancial economic aid VA > (which German Chancelour Mr. Kohl has been VA > advocating for some time) VA > to facilitate transition into market economy; VA > but the policy of moral VA > and political support to the democratic Mr. VA > Gorbachev and Mr. Yeltsin VA > worked. On the other hand, Western support for VA > "territorialy unified VA > Yugoslavia" - which supported the centralistic VA > and conservative VA > policies of Mr. Markovic and Mr. Milosevic - VA > caused a civil war. VA > VA > Isn't the lesson obvious enough ? VA > VA > VA > Regards, VA > VA > Vladimir Alkalaj VA > Head of Computer Centre I thank Vladimir for his posting. Unfortunately, the moral bankruptcy within which we all conspire to live dictates that Yugoslavia will not be treated with even a fraction of the self-serving solicitatious concern we express when the people threatened have oil or nuclear missiles. Vladimir, I hate to say this, but the obvious lesson is for you. Our lessons are not at all obvious to us. With humble admiration for those who have convictions and the decency to stand up for them, Dhanesh ------- PS: Vladimir: If you read this news-group, I (for one) think you should feel free to discuss Yugoslav politics here. From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:43:36 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:43:17 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:00:34 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!cunixf.cc.columbia.edu!lamont!vadim From: vadim@ldgo.columbia.edu (vadim levin) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: witness account Keywords: burning tanks in Moscow Message-Id: <1991Aug22.131013.23075@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu> Date: 22 Aug 91 13:10:13 GMT Sender: news@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory Lines: 123 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO received the following article this night. Path and name of the author are taken off, everything else is intact. Last night there was the first act of violence in Moscow, it already became widely known and for political purposes will be interpreted in different ways. As an observer and participant, I would like to give my personal witnesses of this episode. The general situation is the following. Moscovites are defending the huge building of Russian counsil of ministers right near the American Embassy. There are many politicians inside who organize the opposition, including Eltsin, members of two parliaments - Soviet and Russian, and other. First night there were about 10 thousand people around the building, yesterday noon there was a large rally with maybe 300 thousand people if not more. And last night probably more than 50 thousand people were constantly staying in defence. Half of them were highly organized: they were divided in detachments and stood in lines close to each other around the walls and on nearest barricades. Another half were staying, sitting and moving around. There are many armed vehicles in various parts of Moscow, they move in complicated way, no one, at least outside the building, understands clearly the military situation. The radio announcements and rumors are contradictory and not very reliable. Soldiers, when spoken to, do not express readiness to fight with people. Most probably, that some troops refused to fight and left the city, but the new ones are coming inside. Two small detachments of tanks and armed vehicles came to the building to help in defence. Besides these places with trops, some blocks in the centre and the block aroung our building, the rest of the city is quiet and the ordinary life goes on. Although Commandant Hour (I forgot the exact English term which means that at night hours people should not leave their homes) was proclaimed, it is not respected at all. I stayed in line first night, second carried around the block a slogan with a call to soldiers for fraternalization. The idea was to meet possible troops (everybody was expecting storm this night) earlier, even before they contact the major defences, and speak to them. It turned out that this night there were relatively few troops in Moscow, many left the city in the evening. I guess, that the small battle that took place happened unintentionally. This happened at about 1 a.m. A small detachment of armoured vehicles most probably was not trying to storm the building, but was passing by through the large street about 300 meters from the building (Chaikovsky street, the one with American embassy). There were barricades on this street at the two entrances of the tunnel. Some vehicles were stopped peacefully (I saw two, maybe there were few more), five of them decided to pass through and they get into the tunnel rather easily. I did not watch this, reportedly there was some shooting into the air. The second barricade was larger, there were some trolleys across the tunnel entrance, and finally the vehicles could not make a hole in it and they were blocked inside. They stopped at a place, about hundred meters long, with the tunnel entrance in one end, barricade in another, and walls (1 to 5 meters high) on their left and right sides. About three hundreds of people, including myself, rushed to the place, where they hear sooting. When I came close, five vehicles were near the barricade and about two dozens of people came down close to them. Soldiers were not very agressive, in three vehicles they opened the hatchways, looked out from them so that the people could speak to them. Defenders, who came to the barricade, were not an organized detachment but a kind of a crowd. Some people behave peacefully, I too came down to the vehicles with my slogan and spoke to the soldiers. Some other (mostly teenagers) were exited and psycologically ready to fight, and their words and gestes could look agressive and unpleasant to soldiers. Things became more dangerous quickly, when one of the vehicles with closed hatchways began to move actively trying to throw a man or two who were staying on its armoured top. A dozen of boys were running around it, evadind from its wheels and attacking its armour, although the most serious weapon they had were iron and wooden sticks. I climed up on the wall. Probably a minute after one of the boys was shot. He was attacking (probably without any weapon) the vehicle from its rear, came in contact with it, its door opened probably from inside and someone shoot him point-blank to death. He fell so that half of the body was inside the vehicle, and the feet draged on the ground. Vehicle continued moving back and forth, people were still attacking it, those on the walls started scanding "murders!". After a minute the boys picked the body which fell out. Vehicle was hitting the barricade trying to make a hole in it, a trolley was crashed, but it still could not make a hole enough to escape. Some reported later, that it crushed two more people, I could not see this from my point, but there was a great danger andf a real possibility for this. Other vehicles stayed quietly, but there was a common hysterics, even a soldier from one of them ran out and roze his hands appealing to the people and apologizing. People from the walls threw stones and sticks at the aggressive vehicle, then they took some oil from the car on the street and started trowing a bottles with oil. The vehicle began to burn on its top. It was shooting from the mashine gun into the air. I could do nothing more with my slogan and left the place when the vehicle began to burn. Finally two vehicles returned back into the tunnel, where the people could not attack them from the above walls Soldiers from three other surrended with them and left their vehicles in the hands of the boys. Probably there were no more victims. When I visited that place an hour later several members of the parliament and a general who is organising the defence of the building were there and they were negotiationg with the soldiers. The situation cooled down a bit, and even the exited teenagers were helping to introduce some order. But we were still expecting the general attack on the building first at 2 a.m., then at 4 a.m., and I returned back closer to the major defence lines. The night came to an end quietly, although several times there were announcements about approaching troops. At 6 a.m. I returned back home. Present situation is unclear. Military made some more dangerous announcements on the official radio. There are also rumors that the situation improved greatly and that the plotters either escaped, or were arrested. Anyway, there will be reason for me to go to the building this evening. Now it is 4 p.m., the rain stopped, I am finishing this letter and going out. ******************************************************** From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:44:16 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:43:55 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:00:41 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!cs.yale.edu!cs.yale.edu!horne-scott From: horne-scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: Talk to the general media? Message-Id: <1991Aug22.144914.5756@cs.yale.edu> Date: 22 Aug 91 14:49:14 GMT References: <18914@venera.isi.edu> <1991Aug21.021437.21808@agate.berkeley.edu> Sender: news@cs.yale.edu (Usenet News) Organization: Computer "Science" Dept, Yale University Lines: 26 Originator: horne@jaguar.CS.Yale.Edu Nntp-Posting-Host: jaguar.zoo.cs.yale.edu Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO In article <1991Aug21.021437.21808@agate.berkeley.edu>, jbuck@forney.berkeley.edu (Joe Buck) writes: < Date: 19 Aug 91 18:46:52 GMT References: <18655@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO Lines: 4 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO I heard from CBS this morning that Mr. Scheverdnadze is calling the western nation to take hard line action to against what is happened now. He said the soviet people needs more help from the west. From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:46:37 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:46:18 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:01:31 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!mintaka!think.com!sdd.hp.com!wupost!cec2!news From: guo@wuee1.wustl.edu (Guo Mian) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: minorty soldier Message-Id: <1991Aug19.184222.27542@cec1.wustl.edu> Date: 19 Aug 91 18:42:22 GMT Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO Lines: 15 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO On June 4, 1989, Chinese government used uneducated minority soldiers (came from farmers) to open fire on chinese students. It could happen in soviet. But there are two fundamental differences between soviet and china. 1. There was no powerful damocratic elected president in china. The organization of damocratic forces in china were very poor. 2. The education of chinese soldiers is much lower than that of soviet soldiers. I think most soviet soldier know what is goining on. But very few chinese soldiers knew what was going on. I do not think soviet military can use the method that the chinese used to their people because it would be extreamly dangerous for hard liner. From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:47:14 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:46:53 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:01:38 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!mintaka!think.com!sdd.hp.com!wupost!cec2!news From: guo@wuee1.wustl.edu (Guo Mian) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Bush contacted Gorbachev Message-Id: <1991Aug21.173436.4369@cec1.wustl.edu> Date: 21 Aug 91 17:34:36 GMT Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO Lines: 4 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Local NBC TV reported that Bush has made a phone call with Mr. Corbachev. They talked each other. Gorbachev said that his power has been restored. From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:48:24 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:48:05 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:02:06 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!news.funet.fi!fuug!mcsun!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!hollie.rdg.dec.com!decuk.uvo.dec.com!ketje.enet.dec.com!dierick From: dierick@ketje.enet.dec.com (Dominique Dierick) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: post-coup SU Message-Id: <1991Aug22.144000.8090@decuk.uvo.dec.com> Date: 22 Aug 91 14:40:00 GMT Sender: usenet@decuk.uvo.dec.com (News Account) Reply-To: dierick@ketje.enet.dec.com (Dominique Dierick) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 36 Nntp-Posting-Host: ketje Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Well, You did it over there... I must congratulate all the people who risked a lot. NOw for the future, I only have one suggestion. Try to live in peace with eachother in the different states. There are examples enough in the world where a confederation of states is possible and working fine. After all, the earth is just one very small planet in a whole solar system, in a galaxy of millions of suns , in a universe of billions of galaxies. Just to say fights between some neighbour tiny states is kind of absurd. A lot of people have got killed in the name of nationalism. It 's far more interesting to talk with eachother if you live in the Baltics, or in Georgie or in a Balkan state... Even in our tiny country of Belgium it has happened and fortunately is almost completely gone now. Again, disclaimer, these opinions are mine. Dominique ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ name : Dominique Dierick address : Digital Equipment Corporation Luchtschipstraat 1 Brussels Belgium email : dierick@ketje.enet.dec.com From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:48:57 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:48:40 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:02:53 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!mintaka!think.com!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!nrcnet0!cunews!software.mitel.com!obrien From: obrien@Software.Mitel.COM (Mike O'Brien) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: U.S.A-could you help Finland? Message-Id: <9110@ensingk> Date: 21 Aug 91 13:49:50 GMT References: <1991Aug20.220010.24441@cc.tut.fi> Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada. Lines: 11 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO In article <1991Aug20.220010.24441@cc.tut.fi> l103520@cc.tut.fi (Lehtinen Eero) writes: > >Hi you people from U.S.A, >are you gonna help us like you helped the kuwaitians if the soviet army >attacks against Finland? No, I don't think you have enough cheap oil to attract American support. I wish this was a joke. THE MOB RULES From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:49:34 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:49:17 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:04:58 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!mintaka!olivea!spool.mu.edu!agate!bionet!ig!cs.umd.edu!biow From: biow@CS.UMD.EDU (Christopher Biow) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: The coup resist volution The Message-Id: <9108221505.AA14357@presto.ig.com> Date: 22 Aug 91 14:47:46 GMT References: <01G9NOR4CWRK0007KY@vaxb.acs.unt.edu> Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" Lines: 8 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Interesting title line... :-) My compliments on your restraint in NOT publicizing the nature of the links during the crisis. I only wish ABC, CNN, and the Wash._Post had been as mature. Abuses of freedom of the press like this can endanger said freedom. Chris From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:50:49 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:50:30 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:05:38 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!lynx!nmsu!opus!ataylor From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: "Potemkin" Coup? (Was: Coup? What coup?) Message-Id: Date: 22 Aug 91 14:34:18 GMT References: <1991Aug21.214504.25244@sat.com> <5931@inews.intel.com> Sender: news@NMSU.Edu Organization: NMSU Computer Science Lines: 65 In-Reply-To: bhoughto@hopi.intel.com's message of 22 Aug 91 04:22:52 GMT Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO In article <5931@inews.intel.com> bhoughto@hopi.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes: > In article <1991Aug21.214504.25244@sat.com> lmb@sat.com (Larry Blair) writes: > >[...Gorbachev organized the coup as a trick...] > Uh, yeah, really canny of him to do it this way... It wouldn't be the first time in either Russian or Soviet history that what one sees is NOT what really exists. No doubt you would have come away from a "Volga Cruise" impressed at all the happy peasant villages..... > He must be some sort of super-genius, though, since in > order to make it look realistic he had to get these 8 > people (and a few hundred others) to pretend to oppose his > every political action for 9 years, at a cost of billions > of dollars of lost time and progress, and then turn around > and sacrifice their careers and possibly their lives for him... No, all it may have taken was feeding overblown estimates of how much unrest and potential support for a military coup there was in the USSR to the hardliners. Stalin would have found such an exercise in disinformation to be trivial, for example. Given inaccurate data about the Army in particular to base their plans on, the "putchests" would rise to the bait like a hungry fish in the spring. Gorbachov, of course, would have to assure his own personal safety; but isn't just a bit odd that he chose to take a vacation just at the time when such a putsch might occur? This coup attempt was possibly the dumbest since the Decembrist revolt! It flushed out into the open enemies of Gorbachov, strengthened his popularity in the West as well as in the USSR and will provide further impetus in the West to send more aid to Gorbachov's government. It also strengthened Yeltsin, possibly more than Gorbachov, has made the signing of the All-Union treaty virtually inevitable and has certainly increased the "centrifugal" forces in the USSR: the Baltic states will now certainly demand much more independance ASAP as will other Republics. However, it looks like a big plus for Gorbachov, a big minus for the KGB and Stalinists... almost as if it were planned that way. > (For our friends in other lands: I'm being sarcastic. Larry > has just made perhaps the silliest statement ever uttered in > an electronic message, Hardly; read some of bhought's posts in talk.politics.misc. > and I would be remiss if I didn't take > a lighthearted poke at him while refuting his silly claim. > Maybe he was being sarcastic, too. Let's hope so.) Ignorance of Russian and Soviet history on your part, Blair, is no justification for laughing at what you do not understand. From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:54:27 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:54:09 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:08:23 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!mintaka!think.com!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!att!linac!convex!usenet From: jhyde@convex.COM (John C. Hyde) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: Scared... Message-Id: <1991Aug22.150756.4436@convex.com> Date: 22 Aug 91 15:07:56 GMT References: <1991Aug21.020259.10339@apollo.hp.com> Sender: usenet@convex.com (news access account) Reply-To: jhyde@convex.COM (John Hyde) Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA Lines: 22 Nntp-Posting-Host: trojan.convex.com Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO In article <1991Aug21.020259.10339@apollo.hp.com> goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman) writes: > >What really scares me to death is the news that part of the Taman >Guard Armored Division reportedly defected to Yeltsin, and is now >defending the Russian Parlament. >[Why?] >If the Taman Guards can take sides and disobey orders, what can we >expect from the regular Army detachements? The Tamin Guards were actually _loyal_ to the SU, it was the coup leaders who were disloyal. They represented an _illigitimate_ government, while Yeltsin was the only public figure able to act as functioning head of a legitimate government. Any military leader who sided with the failed coup should at least be court-marshaled. -- John C. Hyde | "Only a brave person is willing honestly to admit, | and fearlessly to face, what a sincere and jhyde@convex.com | logical mind discovers." -Rodan of Alexandria From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:56:47 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:56:30 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:11:40 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!att!linac!convex!usenet From: jhyde@convex.COM (John C. Hyde) Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.soviet,alt.activism.d Subject: Re: Great Going, Bush! Message-Id: <1991Aug22.151635.5323@convex.com> Date: 22 Aug 91 15:16:35 GMT References: <1991Aug21.223642.1821@dsd.es.com> Sender: usenet@convex.com (news access account) Reply-To: jhyde@convex.COM (John Hyde) Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA Lines: 21 Nntp-Posting-Host: trojan.convex.com Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO In article pjt@vipunen.hut.fi (Pekka J Taipale) writes: > >But I 'm pretty sure that if there had not been a charismatic leader >such as Yeltsin, to take responsibility, to claim leadership, to make >convincing speeches, to have a concrete place for the masses to defend >(the Russian Federation parlament house), I doubt the resistance to >the coup would have been succesful. Masses on the streets are no good >if they have no goals, no coordination, no feel of legal and moral >righteousness. Yeltsin provided these. In addition, Yeltsin had an agenda; a long-term direction. For these reasons, Yeltsin and the Russian people succeeded, while the (still to this day) disorganized band of students at Tienammon Square in China failed. -- John C. Hyde | "Only a brave person is willing honestly to admit, | and fearlessly to face, what a sincere and jhyde@convex.com | logical mind discovers." -Rodan of Alexandria From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:57:25 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:57:06 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:12:29 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!sics.se!fuug!mcsun!ukc!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!hans From: hans@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Hans Huttel) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: The koo dayta collapses ! Message-Id: <16494@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> Date: 22 Aug 91 15:04:00 GMT References: <1991Aug19.084724.9089@watdragon.waterloo.edu> Sender: nnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk Organization: Lab. for Foundations of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh Lines: 12 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO The koo dayta (as they say in English) has ended. Boris Yeltsin is the big hero. Gorbachev is back. Boris Pugo has shot himself. What do you think will happen now ? The union treaty wasn't signed for obvious reasons - I guess the republics might want to have more influence now; certainly Yeltsin's speech hints at this. -- Hans H\"{u}ttel, Office 1603 JANET: hans@uk.ac.ed.dcs Lab. for Foundations of Comp. Sci. UUCP: ..!mcvax!ukc!dcs!hans JCMB, University of Edinburgh ARPA: hans%dcs.ed.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk Edinburgh EH9 3JZ, SCOTLAND This is _not_ a clever quote from a song. From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 05:57:57 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 05:57:40 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:12:52 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!news.funet.fi!fuug!mcsun!uunet!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!uwm.edu!bionet!ig!nowalls.ucsd.edu!janczyn From: janczyn@NOWALLS.UCSD.EDU (George Janczyn) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Transliteration of Russian Message-Id: <9108221517.AA14946@presto.ig.com> Date: 22 Aug 91 15:08:56 GMT Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" Lines: 12 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Could you consider using a slight modification of the Library of Congress transliteration scheme for Russian? The scheme used up to now is extremely difficult to read. Here is a suggested alternative, which is slightly different from LC's scheme, in alphabetical order: a b v g d e e zh z i i i k l m n o p r s t u f kh ts ch sh shch y ie ie e iu ia f y Thank you. G. Janczyn gjanczyn@ucsd.edu From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 06:00:25 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 06:00:07 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:16:10 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!mintaka!yale!yale.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!bionet!ig!untvax.bitnet!IH04 From: IH04@untvax.bitnet Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: The Networked Revolution Message-Id: <9108221552.AA16407@presto.ig.com> Date: 22 Aug 91 15:45:00 GMT Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" Lines: 12 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO To: Christopher Biow >Interesting title line ... :-). I thought so, too. Apparently I've been using a backspace that really isn't one. When I forget to check, I end up with these stream of con- sciousness messages like that title. As for the article, did you see information on ABC, CNN or in the Post about these networks during the Soviet crisis? I watched the networks religiously and didn't see any note about InterNet, FidoNet or the like except for a brief, oblique message on CNN which repeated a rumor I heard here first.