From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:06:13 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:05:54 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:52:54 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!ukc!edcastle!helium!helium!hthompso From: hthompso@watt.uk.ac.edinburgh (Henry Thompson) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Please time-stamp your translations Message-Id: Date: 21 Aug 91 10:19:18 GMT Sender: news@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Network News Administrator) Distribution: talk Organization: /u0/sip/hthompson/.organization Lines: 8 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Many thanks to those translating and re-broadcasting the russian posting to this group, but their utility to the rest of us will be vastly increased if you include the timestamp of the original as the first line of your translation. -- Henry Thompson, Department of Artificial Intelligence, University of Edinburgh 80 South Bridge, Edinburgh EH1 1HN, Scotland Telephone: 031 650-4440 ARPA: hthompson%edinburgh@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk JANET: hthompson@uk.ac.edinburgh From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:07:54 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:07:36 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:53:13 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!ugle.unit.no!nuug!ifi.uio.no!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!wupost!usc!apple!ig!stetson.bitnet!STEEVES From: STEEVES@stetson.bitnet Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Church in revolution Message-Id: Date: 21 Aug 91 02:13:00 GMT Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" Lines: 8 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Radio Liberty reports that Yeltsin has asked the patriarch of the Russian Orthodox church, Alexis II, not to stand aside from the current problems. So far no word that the patriarch has spoken out. Paul Steeves Stetson University From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:08:31 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:08:13 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:53:22 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!ugle.unit.no!nuug!ifi.uio.no!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!wupost!usc!apple!ig!cs.umd.edu!biow From: biow@CS.UMD.EDU (Christopher Biow) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: Contacting the News People & Local Media Message-Id: <9108210118.AA19595@sonne.cs.UMD.EDU> Date: 21 Aug 91 01:18:33 GMT References: Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742 (pronto) Lines: 6 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO So long as you can conceal the way in which the information is getting out (i.e. data comm on phone lines), I don't see the harm. ABC has already revealed that phone lines are irregularly open for fax and computers. Chris From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:09:42 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:09:25 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:53:33 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!ugle.unit.no!nuug!ifi.uio.no!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!wupost!usc!pollux.usc.edu!tsudik From: tsudik@pollux.usc.edu (Gene Tsudik) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: some hasty translations Message-Id: <35211@usc.edu> Date: 21 Aug 91 12:01:44 GMT Sender: news@usc.edu Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 160 Nntp-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu Originator: tsudik@pollux.usc.edu Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Path: usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!hydra!fuug!demos!news-server From: polina@jumbo.hq.demos.su (Polina Antonova) Newsgroups: relcom.politics,talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: ? Message-ID: Date: 20 Aug 91 16:54:49 GMT Sender: news-server@kremvax.hq.demos.su Reply-To: polina@jumbo.hq.demos.su Organization: DEMOS, Moscow, USSR Lines: 165 Xref: usc talk.politics.soviet:8175 wOT NABL@DENIQ IZ NESKOLXKIH GORODOW. pISXMA PRODOLVA@T POSTUPATX. G. dIMITROWGRAD, uLXQNOWSKOJ OBL. GORODSKAQ GAZETA "dIMITROWGRAD-pANORAMA" OPUBLIKOWALA OBRA]ENIE eLXCINA. wEDETSQ SBOR PODPISEJ W PODDERVKU ZAKONNO WYBRANNOGO rOSSIJSKOGO RUKOWODSTWA. w GORODE SPOKOJNO. Here are some news from several cities. Letters keep on coming... Dimittrovgrad (Ulyanovskaya Oblast) City newspaper "Dimitrovgrad-panarama" published Yetltsin's speech. Signatures are being collected for the support of lawfully elected Russian government. All is quiet in the city, kIEW: w kIEWE OTNOSITELXNO SPOKOJNO, PO\TOMU WSE WOSPRINIMAETSQ KAK GLUPAQ [UTKA. wMESTE S TEM NE POSTUPAET INFORMACIQ PO tw. q BYL W 12.30 NA CENTRALXNOJ PLO]ADI. gRUPPA L@DEJ DO 100 ^ELOWEK OBSUVDALA NOWOSTI. nOWOSTI TAKIE: -IDET ZASEDANIE pREZIDIUMA wERHOWNOGO sOWETA uKRAINY; -W^ERA W kIEW PRIEZVAL ZAM. qZOWA I IMEL BESEDU S kRAW^UKOM (SODERVANIE NE IZWESTNO); Kiev: It is relatively quiet in Kiev as it all seems like a silly joke from here. On top of this, relevant information is not being supplied on the TV. I was on the central square at 12:30. A group of about 100 people was discussing the news. The news are as follows: - The session of the Ukranian Supreme Soviet is currently in progress - General Yazov's assistant visited Kiev yesterday and had a chat with Kravchuk (contents of the talk unknown). -19 WE^EROM PO tw WYSTUPAL kRAW^UK. pRIZYWAL K SPOKOJSTWI@. oTMETIL, ^TO ws uKRAINY DO SIH POR NE IMEET DOSTOWERNOJ I POLNOJ INFORMACII O PROISHODQ]IH SOBYTIQH. pROZWU^ALA FRAZA O NE KONSTITUCIONNYH METODAH SMENY PRAWITELXSTWA. pRIZWAL SOBL@DATX SPOKOJSTWIE I PRIDERVIWATXSQ ZAKONOW uKRAINY. On the evening of the 19th, Kravchuk spoke on the TV. He appealed to maintain quiet and calm. HE pointed out that Supreme Soviet of the Ukraine still has no full or reliable information regarding the current events. (He slipped in) a sentence about "unconstitutional methods of changing the government". (He) called on (the people) to keep calm and respect the Ukranian law. nA 15 ^ASOW SOBIRAETSQ BOLX[OJ MITING NA PLO]ADI. ~LENY ruhA ZAQWLQ@T, ^TO E]E NE WYRABOTANA EDINAQ TAKTIKA DEJSTWIJ RUHOWCEW, NO O^EWIDNO BUDET PRIZYW K PROWEDENI@ AKCIJ GRAVDANSKOGO NEPOWINOWENIQ pOZICIQ ws uKRAINY IZLOVENA W INTERWX@ zAM. PREDSEDATELQ ws wLADIMIRA gRINEWA GAZETE "kOMSOMOLXSKOE ZNAMQ" A big meeting is expected at 15:00 on the square. Members of RUKH are proclaiming that RUKH has still not reached a unified position or tactic, however, it seems like there will be a call to commit acts of civil disobedience. Position of the Supreme Soviet of Ukraine is expressed in the interview with Asst. Chairman of the SS, Vladimir Grinev, in the newspaper "Komsomol's Flag". kOR.: fAKTI^ESKI PO RADIO ZAQWLENO O ROSPUSKE ZAKONNOJ WLASTI W RESPUBLIKE. nO MY RAZGOWARIWAEM S WAMI W WA[EM KABINENTE, TANKOW I BRONETRANSPORTEROW NET. zNA^IT LI \TO, ^TO PRODOLVAET DEJSTWOWATX kONSTITUCIQ uKRAINY. gRI.: nESOMNENNO. pOKA WSE FUNKCIONIRUET. w BLIVAJ[IE ^ASY SOBERETSQ pREZIDIUM wERHOWNOGO sOWETA. mY SOBEREM \KSTRENNU@ SESSI@ ws I BUDEM RE[ATX PROBLEMY, KAK PRISTALO ZAKONNOJ WLASTI W SOOTWETSWII S ZAKONODATELXSTWOM I kONSTITUCIEJ RESPUBLIKI. w REGIONAH uKRAINY SEGODNQ SLOVNAQ OBSTANOWKA, SWQZANNAQ S POLNOJ NEOPREDELENNOSTX@. zABLOKIROWANY KANALY ct I cENTRALNOGO RADIO. sWQZX w~ W wERHOWNOM SOWETE ZABLOKIROWANA. eSTX NEOPREDELENNOSTX I W SAMOM ws. mY E]E NE DO KONCA RAZOBRALISX S OBSTOQTELXSTWAMI PRI KOTORYH PROHODIL PUT^, KAKOWA POZICIQ OTDELXNYH POLITI^ESKIH LIDEROW. KF: Essentially, the disbanding of the lawful government of the Republic was announced on the radio. Still, we are now talking in your office; there are no tanks or armored vehicles outside. Do you know if the Ukranian constitution is still in force? Grinev: Undoubtedly. So far, everything is functioning (normally). In the next few hours, the SS presidium will convene. We will gather the extraordinary session of the SS and will (try to) solve the problem as befits the lawful government in accordance with the laws and the constitution of the republic. The situation is quite complex in the regions of the Ukraine due to complete lack of coordination. The TV and radio channels are blocked. There is some uncertainty even in the SS. We've still not completed sorting out the circumstances of the putsch; the individual postions of certain political leaders. sANKT-pETERBURG: eSLI KOROTKO, TO ATMOSFERA W GORODE DOWOLXNO OPTIMIS- TI^NA. nAROD RE[ITELEN, HOTQ NEPOHOVE, ^TOBY KTO-TO SOBIRAL- SQ BASTOWATX (VDUT DALXNEJ[IH SOBYTIJ). eSLI OBSTANOWKA BU- DET UHUD[ATXSQ O^ENX MNOGIE PRIDUT ZA]I]ATX ZDANIE mARIINSKOGO DWORCA. Saint-Petersburg: Briefly, the atmosphere in the city is quite optimistic. The masses are resolute, yet it doesn't appear as if anyone is about to go on strike (everyone is awaiting further developments). If things worsen, many will come to defend the building of Maria's Castle (Mariinskiy Dvoretz). 20 AWG 1991 uTROM U METRO RASKLEENY LISTOWKI. wOKRUG NIH - TOLPY. nEKO- TORYE WESELO WSLUH RUGA@T KOMMUNISTOW - PUT^ISTOW. w METRO NA STENAH KOE - GDE LISTOWKI. nA nEWSKOM - MNOVESTWO INFORMACII. rASKLEENY LISTOWKI S uKAZAMI eLXCINA, "sMENA", "nEWSKOE WREMQ", "~AS PIK". dNEM STONOWITSQ IZWESTNO, ^TO POD s.-pETERBURGOM DWI- VETSQ BRONETEHNIKA. 12:00 nA iSSAKIEWSKOJ PLO]ADI IDET MITING. mNOGO L@DEJ (TYSQ^I ^ETYRE). sTOIT mA[INA gERMANSKOGO KONSULA. w NEJ - DWOE. rABOTAET RADIO (KAKAQ-TO NA[A SWOBODNAQ RADIOSTANCIQ). wOKRUG MA[INY STOQT L@DI I SLU[A@T. pRIMERNO S 17:00 PO RADIOTRANSLQCII WKL@^A@T (PRQMO) lENSOWET. August 20th, 1991. Leaflets were posted in the metro this morning. There are crowds around them. Some people are cheerfully and loudly cursing communists - putsch instigators. On the Nevsky - plenty of information. Proclamations with Yeltsin's decrees, "Smena", "Nevskoe Vermya", "Chas Pik". It becomes known during the day that armored columns are moving in the St. Petersburg's environs. There is a meeting going on at 12:00 on the Isaakievskiy Square. Lots of people (ca. 4,000). German consul's car is there (there are two people in it). The radio is broadcasting some free station. Many people are standing around the car and listening. -- ---------------------- Gene Tsudik Spiritually at the University of Southern Califlower Physically at the IBM Zurich Research Laboratory From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:10:21 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:10:02 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:53:44 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!ugle.unit.no!nuug!ifi.uio.no!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!mintaka!olivea!samsung!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!pollux.usc.edu!tsudik From: tsudik@pollux.usc.edu (Gene Tsudik) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: more translations Message-Id: <35212@usc.edu> Date: 21 Aug 91 12:03:14 GMT Sender: news@usc.edu Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 50 Nntp-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu Originator: tsudik@pollux.usc.edu Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Path: usc!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!sics.se!fuug!demos!news-server From: any@jumbo.hq.demos.su (Anna Treger) Newsgroups: relcom.politics,talk.politics.soviet Subject: Message-ID: Date: 20 Aug 91 19:43:41 GMT Sender: news-server@kremvax.hq.demos.su Reply-To: any@jumbo.hq.demos.su Organization: DEMOS, Moscow, USSR Lines: 16 Xref: usc talk.politics.soviet:8207 Subject: INFORMACIQ IZ STA^KOMA n.nOWGORODA w^ERA (19/08/91) nIVEGORODSKOE TELEWIDENIE ZA^ITALO OBRA]ENIE g~k I T.eLXCINA b.n.,A TAKVE SOOB]ENIE O SOZYWE ^REZ- WY^AJNOJ SESSII GORSOWETA ZA PODPISX@ ZAM.PREDSEDATELQ GORSO- WETA sABA[NIKOWA.w^ERA W 17.00 SOSTOQLSQ MITING W PODDERVKU eLXCINA S U^ASTIEM DEPUTATOW OBLASTI I RESPUBLIKI.sEGODNQ W 17.00 SOSTOQTSQ MITINGI W CENTRE GORODA I NA aWTOZAWODE,GDE BUDET SOZDAN SWOJ STA^KOM.fUNKCIONIRUET GORODSKOJ STA^- KOM(TEL.8 8312-39-01-42).zAREGISTRIROWANY 5 KRUPNYH PREDPRIQ- TIJ,OB'QWIW[IH ZABASTOWKU.W GORODE OBSTANOWKA SPOKOJNAQ,WOEN- NYH NE WIDNO.oDNAKO OTSUTSWUET DOSTOWERNAQ INFORMACIQ O POLO- VENII W STRANE I mOSKWE.pO GORODU HODQT SLUHI O SUDXBE gORBA- ^EWA m.s.(WPLOTX DO EGO SMERTI).sTA^KOM PROSIT SOOB]ITX IN- FORMACI@ PO TELEFONU ILI ^EREZ NAS.vDEM OTWETA. pEREDAL w.w.bORODIN Information from Nizhniy Novgorod: Yesterday, Yeltsin's appeal to the people was broadcasted on the local TVa along with the announcement of the extraordinary session of the city soviet. YEsterday at 17:00 a rally in support of Yeltsin was held; regional deputees participated. Today at 17:00 there will be a rally in the city center where a strike committee will be formed. .... ... Five sizeable factories/plants have committed to the strike. In general, the atmosphere is calm in the city, there are no troops to be seen. However, reliable information about the situation in the country (and Moscow) is lacking. There are rumors about Gorby's fate (even concerning his death). ... transmitted by V.V. Borodin -- ---------------------- Gene Tsudik Spiritually at the University of Southern Califlower Physically at the IBM Zurich Research Laboratory From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:10:55 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:10:38 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:53:59 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!ugle.unit.no!nuug!ifi.uio.no!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!mintaka!yale!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!pollux.usc.edu!tsudik From: tsudik@pollux.usc.edu (Gene Tsudik) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: more translations Message-Id: <35213@usc.edu> Date: 21 Aug 91 12:05:00 GMT Sender: news@usc.edu Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 45 Nntp-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu Originator: tsudik@pollux.usc.edu Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO From: postmaster@brokin.msk.su (Grachov Vadim Anatolyevich) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: . "--" Message-ID: Date: 21 Aug 91 05:29:17 GMT Sender: news-server@relcom Reply-To: postmaster@brokin.msk.su Organization: KIAE Lines: 17 oT "b-i-s". kONGRESS ROSSIJSKIH DELOWYH KRUGOW. (pOLNYJ TEKST POZVE). iNFORMACIQ I TELEFONNYJ RAZGOWOR. wSEM, KOMU DOROGI ROSTKI ZAWOEWANIJ DEMOKRATII. pROSIM mOSKWI^EJ ORGANIZOWATX OBORONU wERHOWNOGO SOWETA. sI- TUACIQ BLIZKA K KRITI^ESKOJ. wOZMOVNO PRIMENENIE PUT^ISTAMI OGNESTRELXNOGO ORUVIQ I, WOZMOVNO, OTRAWLQ@]IH WE]ESTW. pROSIM ORGANIZOWATX PODDERVKU WO WSEH REGIONAH STRANY. oT NAS ZAWISIT NA[E BUDU]EE. pROSXBA RAZOSLATX \TO SOOB]ENIE WSEM. rADIO "|ho moskwy" RABOTAET NA SREDNIH WOLNAH 1000-1200 KgC. sITUACIQ NA SAMOM DELE BLIZKA K KRITI^ESKOJ. "b-i-s" From "B-I-S". Congress of Russian Business Circles (i.e., businessmen) (Full text will follow). Information and telephone conversation: To all who treasure (or hold dear) saplings of hard-earned democracy: We ask moscovites to form the defense of the Supreme Soviet (or RSFR). Situation is near critical. IT is quite possible that the putchists will use firearms and poisonous agents (i.e., gas). We ask for logistic support from all regions of the country. Our future depends on us. We ask to give this announcement widest possible circulation. Radio "Moscow's Ear" is broadcasting on mid-range waves 1000-12000 KgC. Truly, the situation is on the verge of being apocalyptical! -- ---------------------- Gene Tsudik Spiritually at the University of Southern Califlower Physically at the IBM Zurich Research Laboratory From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:11:32 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:11:14 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:54:30 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!ugle.unit.no!nuug!ifi.uio.no!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!wupost!decwrl!sgi!cdp!rbernstein From: cdp!rbernstein Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: Radio Moscow sounds strange tonite Message-Id: <1483700012@cdp> Date: 21 Aug 91 05:48:00 GMT References: <20802526@1991Aug20.054723.703@anasaz> Lines: 8 Nf-Id: #R:1991Aug20.054723.703@anasaz:-2080252609:cdp:1483700012:000:379 Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!rbernstein Aug 20 22:48:00 1991 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO I think the ``normal'' voice you are referring to is Vladimir Posner, originally from New York, who was the principal voice for many years; he resigned in protest several months ago. When was the last time you tuned in to Radio Moscow? P.S. I haven't been able to get Moscow at all the past two days on the frequencies I used to. What frequency are you getting them on at 0500? From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:12:09 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:11:47 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:54:43 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!ugle.unit.no!nuug!ifi.uio.no!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!wupost!uunet!decwrl!sgi!cdp!hmuskat From: cdp!hmuskat Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: Soviet Bulletin #25 Message-Id: <1483700011@cdp> Date: 21 Aug 91 01:52:00 GMT References: <10984086@0C24A63100A00C6B@vax1.umkc.edu> Lines: 10 Nf-Id: #R:0C24A63100A00C6B@vax1.umkc.edu:-1098408682:cdp:1483700011:000:215 Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!hmuskat Aug 20 18:52:00 1991 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Can you kindly site sources to support the statement: >While Cuba, Iraq, the PLO and Libya applauded the fall of Gorbachev if you can respond here as well as to me by email, I'd appreciate it. Thanks Hal Muskat From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:12:45 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:12:25 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:56:03 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!wupost!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!darkstar!fuzzy!root From: root@fuzzy (Operator) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: GORBY Message-Id: <19744@darkstar.ucsc.edu> Date: 21 Aug 91 16:09:51 GMT References: <9108211307.AA10917@cat.syr.edu> <1991Aug21.153020.10019@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> Sender: usenet@darkstar.ucsc.edu Reply-To: root@fuzzy (Operator) Organization: UC Santa Cruz; Division of Social Sciences Lines: 1 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO GORBY SAID TO BE FLYING BACK TO MOSCOW! From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:13:19 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:12:59 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:56:24 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!sics.se!fuug!mcsun!uunet!munnari.oz.au!uniwa!infidel From: infidel@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: email in the ussr Message-Id: <1991Aug21.061719.16469@uniwa.uwa.oz.au> Date: 21 Aug 91 06:17:19 GMT References: <1991Aug21.034905.12398@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> Sender: news@uniwa.uwa.oz.au (USENET News System) Organization: University of Western Australia Lines: 8 Nntp-Posting-Host: madvax.maths.uwa.oz.au Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes: >If anyone knows the details about the technical facilities there, I'd be >interested. Thanks. So would Col. Alksnis. JW From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:15:00 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:14:43 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:57:18 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!sics.se!fuug!nntp.hut.fi!nntp!pjt From: pjt@vipunen.hut.fi (Pekka J Taipale) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: close neighbor Message-Id: Date: 21 Aug 91 08:16:48 GMT References: <3152@kielo.uta.fi> <1991Aug20.165616.6371@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> Sender: usenet@nntp.hut.fi (Usenet pseudouser id) Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland Lines: 62 In-Reply-To: jwm@sun4.uucp's message of 20 Aug 91 16:56:16 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: vipunen.hut.fi Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO In article <1991Aug20.165616.6371@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> jwm@sun4.uucp (James W. Meritt) writes: >}Finland offers an excellent place to monitor broadcasts from the USSR as >}we are their closest neighbour. >Perhaps you mean to Moscow? There are other countries with borders >on the Soviet Union. Even the US of A is only 3 miles from the Soviet >Union... >But Finland does make an excellent listening site, with a straight >shot across the water ("Whiskey on the Rocks". hehehehe) Actually, that "Whiskey on the Rocks" thing happened in Sweden. We don't have to cross water to get to USSR, we have a thousand kilometers of common land border (and it's Russian border, not Soviet border like Poland, Checkoslovakia et al have). Leningrad is a couple of hundred miles from Helsinki. It's fifty miles from here to Tallinn, accross the Finnish Gulf, where Soviet troops captured the last free Soviet TV stations. (Estonian radio is still free, I think). Interesting side note: Yesterday evening YLE's (our broadcasting company) TV news said that only "six Estonian and three Soviet nationals have been seeking political asylum in Finland". A neat way of saying that this reporter thinks that Estonia is no longer a part of Soviet Union, after the independence declaration a day before. The Finnish public opinion is very strongly supporting the independence of the Baltic countries, especially Estonia. The Baltic countries have prepared to form refugee governments in Scandinavia, if the hard-liners win and old order is restored in the Baltic. (A side note: we Finns like it when our reporters can do interviews of a Estonian leaders using the Finnish language, and most of the time get answers in Finnish as well. Estonians have been watching the Finnish TV closely for a long time. Hope this won't harm the Estonian language, which is different even though remarkably similar to Finnish. Maybe as close as German is to English). A group of Estonian veterans of the Second World War, who joined the Finnish Army to fight USSR after it occupied the Baltic countries, has been visiting Finland to honor the memory of their comrades that were killed in war (and prison camps in Siberia after the war). Our TV showed an interview of a man from that group. He seemed to have a pretty firm vision of things: The Soviet Union changed permanently during the Gorbachev era. The developement is impossible to reverse. The coup will fail, sooner or later. It seems that the Baltic countries will gain their independency - maybe not immediately, but within a few years. This coup may be a setback, but it may as well be a catalyzer for even greater changes towards democracy and and freedom. Time will show; I really hope that the public feeling here is right. If we're wrong, another long dark era will follow. BTW, it seems strange to me why the PLO - along with Iraq and Libya - is once again betting on a dead horse. Don't they have any mind at all? How do they think anybody will take them seriously when they talk about democracy and freedom, now that they support such an undemocratic coup like this? -- Pekka Taipale pjt@vipunen.hut.fi From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:15:38 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:15:20 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:57:23 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!sics.se!fuug!nntp.hut.fi!nntp!pjt From: pjt@vipunen.hut.fi (Pekka J Taipale) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: We Must Rescue Gorbachev !!! Message-Id: Date: 21 Aug 91 08:31:08 GMT References: <7111@mindlink.bc.ca> Sender: usenet@nntp.hut.fi (Usenet pseudouser id) Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland Lines: 23 In-Reply-To: Michael_Carman@mindlink.bc.ca's message of 19 Aug 91 14:32:54 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: vipunen.hut.fi Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO In article <7111@mindlink.bc.ca> Michael_Carman@mindlink.bc.ca (Michael Carman) writes: >If Bush, his lapdog Brian Mulroney, Major et al had done more for Gorbachev at >the G7 summit, he likely would still be in power. Now, we face the possibility >of a long slide back into a cold war -- or worse. Don't blame your leaders on this. You can never know what more aid would have done. It is not at all clear. More aid could just as well have made the hard-liners act earlier upon realizing the USSR's dependancy on West. More aid could as well have stopped the democratic movement earlier. Now it's too late; the old order cannot come back. In the end, nobody outside USSR can do much about this, except show clear support for Yeltsin & co. This is a thing that the Soviets, especially the Russians, must sort out themselves. More than anything else, it's their own lives and their own countries that are on stake. Nobody else can take charge; it is their responsibility. Not that we shouldn't help when we know what to do, of course. -- Pekka Taipale pjt@vipunen.hut.fi From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:16:15 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:15:53 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:57:31 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!wupost!udel!haven.umd.edu!cs.wvu.wvnet.edu!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!un033324 From: un033324@wvnvms.wvnet.edu Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: ex Message-Id: <1991Aug21.074917.1741@wvnvms.wvnet.edu> Date: 21 Aug 91 15:50:40 GMT Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing Lines: 5 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO According to CNN Daywatch, the Group of 8 (Coup d'etat ers) is fleeing to the official moscow airport. Yeltsyn pleads that they must be stopped and brought to trial. Just thought I'd give the good news:) Avery Glasser From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:16:48 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:16:30 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:57:39 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!sics.se!fuug!demos!news-server From: avg@moria.demos.su (Vadim Antonov) Newsgroups: relcom.politics,talk.politics.soviet Subject: Message-Id: Date: 21 Aug 91 06:44:18 GMT Sender: news-server@kremvax.hq.demos.su Reply-To: avg@moria.demos.su Organization: The Home of Cats Lines: 64 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Organization: Leningrad City Council From: ida@cc.spb.su (Isakov Dmitry Andreevitch) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 08:36:35 +0200 (MSD) Subject: sOOB]ENIE IZ lENSOWETA sOOB]ENIE N2 [TABA lENINGRADA PO ORGANIZACII BORXBY S POSLEDSTWIQMI GOSUDARSTWENNOGO PEREWOROTA. sITUACIQ W GORODE HARAKTERIZUETSQ STABILXNOSTX@.nO^NAQ SMENA [TABA OTME^AET, ^TO NA 8.00 ^ASOW 21 AWGUSTA 1991 GODA POLNOSTX@ SOH- RANQETSQ KONTROLX ZAKONNOIZBRANNYH ORGANOW WLASTI - lENSOWETA I m\RII - ZA OBSTANOWKOJ W GORODE. pROIZO[LO WOZRASTANIE NAPRQVENNOSTI OBSTANOWKI, SWQZANNOE S OBOSTRENIEM SOBYTIJ W mOSKWE W KANUN OTKRYTIQ ^EREZWY^AJNOJ SESII ws rsfsr.w SWQZI S \TIM RUKOWODSTWO lENSOWETA I m\RII OBRATILISX K GRAV- DANNAM S PRIZYWOM PRIBYTX NA iSAAKIEWSKU@ POL]ADX. cELX - ^ETKOE, VESTKOE WYRAVENIE IH POZICII GOTOWNOSTI K ZA]ITE ZAKONNO IZBRANNYH ORGANOW WLASTI. w OBESPE^ENIE PRIBYTIQ GRAVDAN PRODLENO WREMQ RABOTY METROPOLI- TENA I SDWINUTO WREMQ RAZWODKI MOSTOW. sOHRANQLOSX WZAIMODEJSTWIE [TABA S RUKOWODSTWOM uwd, W SOGLASOWANII DEJSTWIJ ww I omonA. w TE^ENIE NO^I POSTOQNNO, 3 - 4 RAZA W ^AS POSTUPALA INFORMACIQ OB OBSTANOWKE W mOSKWE, PO NEOBHODIMOSTI PO NEJ KORREKTIROWALISX DEJSTWIQ [TABA. wZAIMODEJSTWIE S OBESPE^IWA@]IMI DEVURSTWO SOGRAVDANAMI BYLO OR- GANIZACIONNO DORABOTANO: S BALKONA WELOSX POSTOQNNOE OB]ENIE ^EREZ STACIONARNU@ GROMKOGOWORQ]U@ USTANOWKU, SERIQ WYSTUPLENIJ ^EREDOWA- LASX S TEKU]EJ OPERATIWNOJ INFORMACIEJ I DOWEDENIEM DO SOBRAW[IHSQ POSLEDNIH NAIBOLEE WAVNYH PRAWITELXSTWENNYH DOKUMENTOW; PREDLOVENIQ I WOPROSY DEVURIW[IH PEREDAWALISX W [TAB I KOMMENTIROWALISX O^EREDNYM WYSTUPA@]IM. sREDI WYSTUPAW[IH - PREDSEDATELX lENSOWETA bELQEW, WICE-M\R }ER- BAKOW, NARODNYJ DEPUTAT rsfsr I lENSOWETA sALXE, NARODNYE DEPUTATY lENSOWETA gAPANOWI^, sIMAKOW, vURAWSKIJ. w PROCESSE OPERATIWNOGO SOPROWOVDENIQ SITUACII OSU]ESTWLQLISX KONTROLX FAKTA I WREMENI NA^ALA WYDWIVENIQ WOJSKOWYH ^ASTEJ, PRIBYW- [IH W PREDYDU]U@ NO^X W OBLASTX, I WOZMOVNYH PUTEJ PODHODA ^ASTEJ lE- NINGRADSKOGO gARNIZONA W POPYTKE OWLADENIQ mARIINSKIM DWORCOM. pERE- ME]ENIJ, UGROVA@]IH OBOSTRENEM SITUACII, NE BYLO. kAK I W PREDYDU]U@ NO^X, WYSTAWLENY ZAGRVDENIQ, ZASLONY I PIKETY NA PUTQH WEROQTNOGO PEREDWIVENIQ PODRAZDELENIJ I ^ASTEJ ws, PRI \TOM W ORGANIZACII I REALIZACII ZAGRAVDENIJ PRINIMALI U^ASTIE SPECIALISTY - STAR[IE OFICERY TEH VE WOORUVENNYH SIL. pERELOM SITUACII W mOSKWE I SNIVENIE NAPRQVENNOSTI W lENINGRADE NASTUPILO OKOLO 4 ^ASOW UTRA. pO ITOGAM RABOTY [TABA NEOBHODIMO OTMETITX BOLX[OJ OBXEM DIZIN- FORMACII,NAPRIMER - "pREKRA]ENIE OTPRAWKI POEZDOW S mOSKOWSKOGO WOK- ZALA","wZQTIE ZDANIQ ws rOSSII WOENNYMI" I T.D.,POSTUPA@]EJ W [TAB I OTWLEKA@]EJ SILY NA EE OBRABOTKU,^TO E]E RAZ OSTRO STAWIT WOPROS O RASPROSTRANENII SLUHOW I STEPENI DOWERIQ GRAVDAN K NIM. uVE USTOJ^IWO OSU]ESTWLQLOSX BEZCENZURNOE OBESPE^ENIE SREDSTWAMI MASSOWOJ INFORMACII (PROWODNAQ I BESPROWODNAQ RADIOSWQZX,TELEWIDENIE) I WYPUSK GAZET. oB]AQ OBSTANOWKA OSTAETSQ NAPRQVENNOJ, MNOGOE W DALXNEJ[EJ DEQ- TELXNOSTI [TABA OPREDELITSQ UVE PERWYMI REZULXTATAMI NA^INA@]EJSQ ^E- REZ DWA ^ASA W mOSKWE RABOTY ~REZWY^AJNOJ SESSII ws rsfsr. sOHRANQETSQ VESTKAQ NEOBHODIMOSTX U^ASTIQ GORAVAN W OHRANE ZA- KONNO IZBRANNYH IMI ORGANOW WLASTI, WYSOKO ORGANIZOWANNOJ PODDERVKE IMI DEJSTWIJ [TABA. sOOB]ENIE PODPISAL ^LEN [TABA,NARODNYJ DEPUTAT sssr a.}ELKANOW From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:17:26 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:17:07 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:57:46 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!sics.se!fuug!demos!news-server From: avg@moria.demos.su (Vadim Antonov) Newsgroups: relcom.politics,talk.politics.soviet Subject: Message-Id: Date: 21 Aug 91 06:46:48 GMT Sender: news-server@kremvax.hq.demos.su Reply-To: avg@moria.demos.su Organization: The Home of Cats Lines: 53 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO From: root@pczz.msk.su (0000-Admin(0000)) Subject: [NEWS] News from White House Reply-To: root@pczz.msk.su Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 8:12:52 MSK pRIWET DRUZXQ ! 7:30 a.m q TOLXKO ^TO WERNULSQ IZ OCEPLENIQ bELOGO dOMA, GDE PROWEL WS@ NO^X. tAK ^TO MOGU DOSTOWERNO SOOB]ITX WSE PODROBNOSTI O SOBYTIQH PRO[ED[EJ NO^I. w 8:00 p.m. 20.08 NAHODILOSX PORQDKA 50-70 TYS. W TE^ENIE WSEJ NO^I KOLI^ESTWO MALO IZMENQLOSX I NAROD NA^AL RASHODITSQ TOLXKO K UTRU. zDANIE bELOGO dOMA OKRUVENO NESKOLXKIMI CEPO^KAMI OCEPLENIQ. w NA^ALE PERWOGO NO^IOBSTANOWKA STALA O^ENX TREWOVNOJ, SO STORONY sADOWOGO KOLXCA STALI SLY[NY KOROTKIE AWTOMATNYE O^EREDI. wNEZAPNO NESKOLXKO O^EREDEJ TRASSIRU@]IMI RAZDALISX SOWSEM BLIZKO W RAJONE ZDANIQ (BYW[EGO) s|w I W RAJONE ZDANIQ NA PROTIWOPOLOVNOJ STORONE kALININSKOGO. nADO SKAZATX ^TO NAROD W OCEPLENII DERVALSQ DOSTOJNO, W MOMENT, KOGDA NA^ALASX STRELXBA NIKTO NE SDWINULSQ S MESTA A TOLXKO KREP^E WZQLISX ZA RUKI. ~EREZ 20-30 MINUT OBSTANOWKA NEPOSREDSTWENNO WOKRUG bELOGO dOMA NE IZMENQLASX, A U NAS POQWILASX INFORMACIQ O TOM ^TO SLU^ILOSX W TONELLE POD kALININSKIM. bmp W_EZVALI W TONELX POD kALINISKIM W \TO WREMQ NA ODNU IZ bmp NABROSILI BREZENT I WODITELX POTERQW WIDIMOSTX STAL KRUTITSQ NA MESTE I ZADAWIL 2 ^ELOWEK WREZALSQ W DRUGU@ bmp, KOGDA ZADAWILI L@DEJ W ODNU IZ 6 bmp BROSILI BUTYLKU S ZAVIGATELXNOJ SMESX@ I ONA ZAGORELASX. w \TOT MOMENT \TA bmp STALA STRELQTX IZ PULEMETA I UBILI E]E ODNOGO ^ELOWEKA. |KIPAV KOTORYJ ZADAWIL L@DEJ WYSKO^IL IZ MA[INY I SKRYLSQ IZ ZAGOREW[EJSQ MA[INY \KIPAV TOVE WYSKO^IL. pERWOGO OFICERA, KOTORYJ WYSKO^IL IZ bmp TOLPA SHWATILA I ZABILA DO SMERTI. bmp ZAPERLI W TONELLE S ODNOJ STORONY BARRIKADOJ IZ TROLLEJBUSOW A S DRUGOJ BARRIKADOJ IZ POLIWALXNYH MA[IN. w TE^ENIE PRIMERNO ^ASA ONI SIDELI I NE WYLEZALI. pOTOM S NIMI NA^ALI PEREGOWORY W REZULXTATE KOTORYH ONI OKAZALISX NA STORONE NARODA OKOLO BLIVNEJ BARRIKADY NA kALININSKOM (KROME SGOREW[EGO I U KOTOROGO RAZBILI TRAK PRI STOLKNOWENII). w OSTATOK NO^I BYLO E]E NESKOLXKO KRUPNYH [UHEROW. pOSTOQNNO NA NAS [LI SO WSEH STORON KOLONNY TEHNIKI NO KAK TO NE DOHODILI. pOSLEDNQQ TREWOVNAQ INFORMACIQ BYLA O wITEBSKOJ DIWIZII, KOTORAQ [LA PO mOVAJSKOMU [. nO EE QKOBY OSTANOWILI UGOWORAMI NARODNYE DEPUTATY DOSTATO^NO DALEKO OT bELOGO dOMA. wOT KRATKO WSE O TOM ^TO BYLO. kSTATI DLQ TEH KTO E]E NE ZNAET: PODAL W OTSTAWKU qZOW A NA EGO MESTO PRI[EL PO SLUHAM E]E BOLX[IJ PODONOK. pO NEPROWERENNYM SWEDENIQ W OTSTAWKU PODAL I kR@^KOW. nO^X@, ^ASA W 2, W bELYJ dOM PRIEHAL {EWARDNADZE, ^EM WYZWAL BURNOE LIKOWANIE NARODA. olg@ From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:17:59 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:17:42 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:57:58 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!sics.se!fuug!demos!news-server From: alxfed@plasma.gpi.msk.su (alxfed) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Intelectual aid to the West :-) Message-Id: Date: 21 Aug 91 07:13:36 GMT Sender: news-server@kremvax.hq.demos.su Reply-To: alxfed@plasma.gpi.msk.su Organization: Plasma Physics Division, Institute for General Physics Lines: 19 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO In my humble opinion the thing that all the western governments have to do now is: to acknoledge the republics in soviet union as an independent states and introduce them into UNO. After that all facts of agression against the constitution and law of this countries from outside will be subject to international trial or whatever. The financial and technolo- gical support have to be granted to the governments of states (former republics) directly. This looks even not so tough as not to acknoledge the whole empire and junta, I think this can only cause another cold war and nothing more. So president Bush, go ahead! ................................................................... : Alexander V. Fedotov Research Associate : : Plasma Phys. Division, General Physics Institute, Moscow, SU : : INET: alxfed@plasma.gpi.msk.su Voice: +7 095 132-8216 : : FAX : +7 095 135-0270 : :.................................................................: P.S. They can become and army without a country. I mean KGB and troops. From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:18:36 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:18:20 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:58:01 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!sics.se!fuug!demos!relcom!dvv From: dvv@relcom.kiae.su (Dmitry V. Volodin) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: transliteration of the News in Russian Message-Id: <1991Aug21.060437.4370@relcom.kiae.su> Date: 21 Aug 91 06:04:37 GMT Organization: Kurchatov Institute of Atomic Energy, Moscow, USSR Lines: 44 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Small ("strochniye") letters: A a B be W ve G ge D de E e V zhe Z ze I i J i kratkoye K ka L el M em N en O o P pe R er S es T te U u F ef H ha C tse ^ che [ sha ] scha _ tverdiy znak Y (don't know how to xlat it to Latin letters) X m'agkiy znak \ eh @ yu Q ya Capital letters change it case, or: ~ CHE { SHA } SCHA (no capital tverdy znak) | EH ` YU From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:19:12 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:18:52 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:58:17 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!ugle.unit.no!nuug!ifi.uio.no!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!mintaka!yale!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!mcsun!ukc!stl!dww From: dww@stl.stc.co.uk (David Wright) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Soviet TV says "Gorbatchov in good health" - coup may be over Message-Id: <4886@stl.stc.co.uk> Date: 21 Aug 91 12:41:45 GMT Sender: news@stl.stc.co.uk Organization: BNR Europe Limited, London Road, Harlow, Essex, UK Lines: 26 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO For those stuck in front of the wrong sort of screens: Russian deputy minister said to be flying to Crimea to see Gorby. Yeltsin tells Russian Parliament that the coup leaders are trying to leave Moscow; Parliament gives him authority to have them stopped. Commentators are already talking about what will happen after it's over, and the respect Yeltsin has gained in the USSR and the West. The resolution of the leaders and people of the Republics that make up the Soviet Union may well have turned this potential disaster into a victory for democracy and perestroika. The 'old guard' are now discredited and if as seems likely their coup has failed the process of reform can move ahead far more smoothly than before. Thanks to Albert Langer and Tom Kimball, whose analysis showed the reasons why the coup might fail. Regards, "None shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity" David Wright BNR Europe Ltd, London Road, Harlow, Essex CM17 9NA, UK dww@stl.stc.co.uk ...uunet!mcsun!ukc!stl!dww PSI%234237100122::DWW "The Krushchev cycle of action and reaction starts again, and yesterday's coup will eventually be followed by another move forward. It could be days, or months, or years. But come it will, and sooner than it did last time." Jonathon Steele, The Guardian 20 August 1991 Make that 'hours' From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:19:45 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:19:28 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:58:41 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!ugle.unit.no!nuug!ifi.uio.no!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!mintaka!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!zazen!schaefer.math.wisc.edu!mueller From: mueller@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Carl Mueller) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Can It Be Over? Message-Id: <1991Aug21.123901.15373@schaefer.math.wisc.edu> Date: 21 Aug 91 12:39:01 GMT Reply-To: mueller@math.wisc.edu Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics Lines: 5 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO CNN this morning (7:45 cdt) is reporting that Yeltsin has announced that the `Gang of Eight' was arrested on its way to the airport. They stress that this is unconfirmed, but if this is true, this thing is over. Right? Carl Mueller (mueller@math.wisc.edu) From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:20:20 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:19:59 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:58:49 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!ugle.unit.no!nuug!ifi.uio.no!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!mintaka!think.com!samsung!news.cs.indiana.edu!gasser@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu From: gasser@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Michael Gasser) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Coup collapsing? Summary: Putsch leaders may be on the run Message-Id: <1991Aug21.075306.10182@news.cs.indiana.edu> Date: 21 Aug 91 12:52:57 GMT Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University Lines: 18 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO The BBC reports troops are moving away from the Russian Parliament building. Yeltsin announces 8 junta leaders are headed for the airport; he orders the airport closed. French news agency reports coup leaders arrested. One official reports contact with Gorbachev, the first since the coup. Communist Party leadership asks that Gorbachev be given a chance to explain his version of what's going on. -- Michael Gasser Indiana University, Computer Science Department Bloomington, IN 47405 USA gasser@cs.indiana.edu (812) 855-7078 From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:20:52 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:20:35 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:58:53 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!iWarp.intel.com!inews!hopi!bhoughto From: bhoughto@hopi.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: Soviet Bulletin #25 Message-Id: <5904@inews.intel.com> Date: 21 Aug 91 15:59:51 GMT References: <9108211307.AA10917@cat.syr.edu> Sender: news@inews.intel.com Organization: Intel Corp, Chandler, AZ Lines: 15 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO In article <9108211307.AA10917@cat.syr.edu> "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" writes: >> While Cube, Iraq, the PLO and Libya applauded the fall of Gorbachev > > I'd like some background qualifiers to this statement. > especially other than %@#^! Can't remember which of the poli-chat shows I saw it on (all the networks and CNN are doing nightly reports, getting their money's worth for their staff in Moscow), but Cuba is "reserving judgment" on the coup, and hopes that "western imperialism" doesn't gain from it; I heard nothing about Lybia; Iraq claims to have INSTIGATED the coup... :-) --Blair "That Saddam. Such a kidder." From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:21:31 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:21:12 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:59:06 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!mintaka!yale!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!ig!untvax.bitnet!IH04 From: IH04@untvax.bitnet Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: Talking to the media? Message-Id: <01G9N0OZZOYO0005LC@vaxb.acs.unt.edu> Date: 21 Aug 91 16:29:00 GMT Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" Lines: 14 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO The media do know about this forum. I've been holding off on a story about it for 48 hours because I didn't want to be lending assistance to the junta's effort to crackdown on independent communication. I'm sure other reporters have done the same thing. Also, I heard a CNN report last night that quoted an "unconfirmed" report on fax machine disabling techniques by the junta which I knew they got from these mailing lists. Rogers Cadenhead (Forwarded by TIM NOLAN -- IH04@UNTVAX) Ps. Best quote: "Don't write our obituary," Boris Yeltsin told ABC News reporter Diane Sawyer as she left the Russian White House yesterday. "We're not dead yet." From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:22:05 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:21:46 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:59:12 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!sics.se!fuug!demos!relcom!news-server From: postmaster@brokin.msk.su (Grachov Vadim Anatolyevich) Newsgroups: relcom.politics,talk.politics.soviet Subject: "--". 10.10 21 Message-Id: Date: 21 Aug 91 07:38:45 GMT Sender: news-server@relcom Reply-To: postmaster@brokin.msk.su Organization: KIAE Lines: 30 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO "b-i-s". 10.10 21 AWGUSTA (pREDYDU]AQ INFORMACIQ TOLXKO W TELEKONFERENCII relcom.politics) pO NEOFICIALXNYM DANNYM, POLU^ENNYM IZ bELOGO dOMA rOSSII (rbd), ARESTOWAN tRAWKIN. pOD WOPROSOM AREST sOB^AKA - U dpr ESTX TAKIE SWEDENIQ, W pITERE NET. wITEBSKAQ DIWIZIQ, NAPRAWLQW[AQSQ W pITER, PERE[LA NA STORONU ZAKONNOGO rOSSIJSKOGO PRAWITELXSTWA I DWIGAETSQ SEJ^AS K mOSKWE. rQZANCY OHRANQ@T PODSTUPY K rbd. kANTEMIROWCY, PO ZA- QWLENI@ MOEGO SOBESEDNIKA, TOVE WRODE BY NA STORONE eLXCINA. kROME TOGO EGO PODDERVIWAET NEKAQ \SKADRILXQ. pO PRIKAZU eLX- CINA tAMANSKAQ DIWIZIQ WRODE NAPRAWLQETSQ K MESTU POSTOQNNOJ DISLOKACII. wSE \TO SO SLOW MOEGO SOBESEDNIKA. wNUTRI rbd ROZDANY PROTIWOGAZY. wOZMOVNA ATAKA S PRIMENENIEM ow. oRUVIQ PRAKTI^ESKI NET. w^ERA U STEN rbd NA^ATA ZAPISX W rOSSIJSKU@ NACIONALXNU@ GWARDI@. kAK WNUTRI rbd, TAK I SO STOWONY NAPADA@]IH SOLDAT L@DI NE SPQT TRETIJ DENX. sTRA[NO PODUMATX, KAKOE RE[ENIE MOVET PRI- NQTX MOLODOJ OFICER W TAKOM SOSTOQNII. pO ZWONKU IZ ~ELQBINSKA: OBSTANOWKA SPOKOJNAQ. pRO[EL MITING W PODDERVKU eLXCINA. wOJSK NET. mUVAJTESX! From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:22:43 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:22:26 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:59:16 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!sics.se!fuug!demos!relcom!news-server From: moroz@inzer.demos.su (Oleg Moroz) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: MOSCOW: FIRST BLOOD Message-Id: Date: 21 Aug 91 08:45:49 GMT Sender: news-server@relcom Reply-To: moroz@inzer.demos.su Organization: Steepler Ltd. Lines: 26 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Hello from Moscow ! August 21, about 00:00AM MSD in front of the 'Arbat' restaurant a BMP (smth like light tank) tried to crash street barricada made of some trolleybuses and 'occasionally' killed two people under the tracks. The soldiers from BMP started to shoot and three more civilians were killed. Soldiers presumably used decentered bullets. People disarmed soldiers, caught 2 BMP's and drove them to Russian White House. Neither militia (Pugo) nor militaries (Yazov) took the responsibility for killing people. Now official radio is translating condolences by Moscow military commandant, who stated, however, that the killed people should blame themselves. Last evening news: Yevgenii Primakov, who came yesterday from Crimea sanatorium neighboring Gorby's dacha (summer house), said that August 19 about 04:00AM MSD some military trailers were used to block the airport run there and Gorby was put under arrest on his dacha. He is healthy, but putschers isolated him from relatives, assistants and the whole world. Some Gorbachev's assistants are also held there. OM From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:23:19 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:22:59 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:59:23 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!sics.se!fuug!demos!news-server From: alxfed@plasma.gpi.msk.su (Alexander V. Fedotov) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Translation of current info Message-Id: Date: 21 Aug 91 08:44:25 GMT Sender: news-server@kremvax.hq.demos.su Reply-To: alxfed@plasma.gpi.msk.su Organization: Plasma Physics Division, Institute for General Physics Lines: 12 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO >From: postmaster@brokin.msk.su (Grachov Vadim Anatolyevich) >Subject: [NEWS] "b-i-s". 10.10 21 AWGUSTA >Message-Id: >Reply-To: postmaster@brokin.msk.su >Organization: KIAE >Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 10:38:45 +0300 >Status: RO > "b-i-s". 10.10 21 AWGUSTA According to rumors from RWH 'Vitebsk' division that had to establish the marshal law in Leningrad took the side of Yeltsyn and turned back to Moscow. The same source said that 'Kantemir' division and a squadron of planes (???) also are on the side of Russia government. From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:23:52 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:23:35 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:59:27 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!sics.se!fuug!demos!news-server From: alxfed@plasma.gpi.msk.su (Alexander V. Fedotov) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Just a minute ago. Message-Id: Date: 21 Aug 91 09:27:49 GMT Sender: news-server@kremvax.hq.demos.su Reply-To: alxfed@plasma.gpi.msk.su Organization: Plasma Physics Division, Institute for General Physics Lines: 20 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Several minutes ago the television in Moscow transmitted the news that the deputy general secretary of Cumunist party Ivashko declared to Yanaev officialy that Gorbachev has to be returned to Moscow for explaining his position. Only in this case, he said the party will ba able to form its attitude towards the situation. They also reported from several places (Kiev and some other) that the troops do not leave their instalations and are helping to reap the harvest (Ha!). Coment: It seems likely that top party and military oligarchia that is aware of the situation back up. In fact this info shows that they now don't express any solidarity with junta. Notice the words:... form the attitude ... not a single word whether it'll be positive or negative and under which condition it will be which. ................................................................... : Alexander V. Fedotov Research Associate : : Plasma Phys. Division, General Physics Institute, Moscow, SU : : INET: alxfed@plasma.gpi.msk.su Voice: +7 095 132-8216 : : FAX : +7 095 135-0270 : :.................................................................: From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:24:30 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:24:13 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:59:45 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!mintaka!olivea!spool.mu.edu!caen!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!pyrite!sidmanm From: sidmanm@pyrite.SOM.CWRU.Edu (Michael Sidman) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: CBS update Message-Id: <1991Aug21.163552.3947@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Date: 21 Aug 91 16:35:52 GMT Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu Organization: WSOM CSG, CWRU, Cleve. OH Lines: 15 X-Post-Machine: pyrite.som.cwru.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: pyrite.som.cwru.edu Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO CBS has just affirmed some of the earliers posts... - The Soviet Parliament has re-affirmed the Gorbmeister in his job - The Committee has fled, and it is rumored that one of the members has committed suicide (this is only a rumor) -- Michael C. Sidman | sidmanm@pyrite.som.cwru.edu Electrical Engineering and Applied Physics |____________________________ Case Western Reserve University | "Cleveland - it's not hell, Cleveland, Ohio 44106 | but a damn good simulation." From cri.dk!news Fri Aug 23 02:25:04 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Fri, 23 Aug 91 02:24:45 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:59:50 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!ugle.unit.no!nuug!ifi.uio.no!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!bu.edu!transfer!lectroid!vineland.pubs.stratus.com From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: BBC Reports the Tanks in Moscow are RETREATING!!! Message-Id: <7270@lectroid.sw.stratus.com> Date: 21 Aug 91 12:42:12 GMT Sender: usenet@lectroid.sw.stratus.com Lines: 5 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO At 8:30 EDT this morning, the local radio news reported the Army's tanks are retreating, and the leaders of the coup are on their way to the airport!! I hope this is true!! NBC reported earlier that the crowd captured 9 tanks! Laurie Mann, 12 Shady Lane Ave., Northboro, MA 01532-1729