From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:34:24 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:34:07 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 01:59:21 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!news.funet.fi!fuug!mcsun!uunet!olivea!apple!ig!indycms.bitnet!IQTI400 From: IQTI400@indycms.bitnet (vertigo flutter) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: We Must Rescue Gorbachev !!! Message-Id: Date: 20 Aug 91 20:01:22 GMT References: Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" Lines: 24 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO On Mon, 19 Aug 1991 14:32:54 GMT Michael Carman said: >It really makes me mad how quickly people are willing to write off the man who >made the democracy movement possible in the Soviet Union and the other Eastern >European contries. This includes the ignorant cow, Barbara McDougall, the >current Canadian External Affairs minister in my own country. Quite true (on writing Gorbachev off). How much of the media time has been spent providing a biography of him and making references to him in past tense as if someone marched him out back and had him shot? >If Bush, his lapdog Brian Mulroney, Major et al had done more for Gorbachev at >the G7 summit, he likely would still be in power. Now, we face the possibility >of a long slide back into a cold war -- or worse. I disagree. What it would take for US aid was quite well outlined. US (and just about everyone else's) aid is a carrot to guide the USSR to free market, human rights, open voting, etc. Had we provided the aid, there would have been no carrot, just a stick. The coup was not a matter of angry masses, it was a matter of power- hungry people whose very livelihoods were at stake should Gorbachev succeed. Their act was that of desperation for power, not food. The people who did this have all the food they want and when they want it. From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:35:30 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:35:13 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 01:59:49 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!smsc.sony.com!george From: george@smsc.sony.com (George Maestri) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Pavlov, Yazov, Krushkov are out Message-Id: <1991Aug20.200827.10340@smsc.sony.com> Date: 20 Aug 91 20:08:27 GMT Sender: george@smsc.sony.com (George Maestri) Organization: Sony Microsystems Corp, San Jose, CA Lines: 20 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Radio here is reporting the Pavlov, Yazov, Krushkov are all out of the coup attempt. Reports are conflicting as to whether they are "sick", or were in the attempt from the start at all. Yazov is reported to be sympathetic to the troops that are loyal to Yeltsin. Any truth to this ? Also, with KGB Chief Krushkov and Defense Minister Yazov out of the coup attempt, doesn't this leave them without much muscle? They would certainly lose alot of their military power. Wouldn't they ? ( They've certainly lost their minds 8-0 ) George. ================================================================= George Maestri george@smsc.sony.com Sony Microsystems Company {uunet,mips}!sonyusa!george 645 River Oaks Pkwy (408)944-4087 San Jose, CA 95134 fax#(408)954-1057 ================================================================= From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:36:04 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:35:46 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:00:17 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!ig!oberlin.bitnet!SKS2454 From: SKS2454@oberlin.bitnet ("Acme Industrial Heavy Objects, Inc.") Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: LIVE from the USSR, Day 2 Message-Id: <296E9D374A1F000902@OBERLIN.BITNET> Date: 20 Aug 91 21:14:00 GMT Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" Lines: 55 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Highlights of Vremya broadcast on August 20, 1991, 21:00 Moscow time: -the Cabinet of Ministers still supports the new Union Treaty, asked citizens to be calm and keep the economy running -Moscow: tanks still on streets, ZIL factory denies rumors of a strike *Note: the tranmission flipped in and out during the previous two reports, so I might have missed something important -a military official commented on various rumors about suicides and arrests of generals, saying they were not true -life continues as usual in Krasnoyarsk -the president of Georgia asks people to remain calm and continue working -Pavlov is having cardiac problems, but nothing serious; Deputy Prime Minister Daguzhiev is fulfilling his duties -Moldova: people have rallied to the defense of radio and television, and parliament; a Council of National Security has been founded; parliament will meet tomorrow -Tallinn: television working normally; tanks enter the city; mass meeting held; local authorities still in control -Lithuanian customs checkpoints on borders with other parts of the USSR are not working; the army is on the highways leading to Vilnius checking for arms -the Union of Military Personnel in the Baltic Region told people to follow orders -the Union of Journalists expressed concern over the suspension of normal media coverage and called on journalists to fulfill their calling -a curfew has been establish in Moscow from 23:00 to 5:00 local time -students will not be drafted to serve in the army -kidnapped Interior Ministry personnel were freed in Stepanakert -a deputy interior minister of the RSFSR ordered military cadets to Moscow; the State Committee on the State of Emergency annulled said order and threatened anyone issuing orders contrary to decrees issued by the Committee -Yanaev annulled Yeltsin's decrees #59, 61, 62, and 63, saying they had no legal foundation -Gosbank is temporarily suspending sale of hard currency to citizens planning a trip abroad; business deals are exempt -the weather in Moscow will be between 18 and 20 degrees Celsius So much for Vremya. I have a couple of personal observations. In the linguistic trivia department, so far Yanaev's Committee keeps referring to itself as rukovodstvo (leadership) rather than pravitel'stvo (government). This is another indication of the rather wishy-washy nature of this 'coup'. Has anyone heard anything from Uzbekistan? I was expecting a call from Tashkent, but I'm not holding my breath. Might I be so bold as to ask for a moratorium on addresses for the sake of addresses? I've already blown my disk quota once today. And if you have long lists of information such as addresses of members of Congress, just advertise them, and if we want them, we'll contact you. Karen Segar 207 E College St Oberlin, OH 44074 (216) 775-5014 sks2454@oberlin OR sks2454@ocvaxa.cs.oberlin.edu From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:36:38 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:36:20 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:00:36 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!news.funet.fi!fuug!mcsun!uunet!stanford.edu!eos!aio!beaumont!guisinge From: guisinge@beaumont.jsc.nasa.gov (Roger Guisinger 713-283-4027) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: Info wanted on new Soviet leaders: Please post to net Message-Id: <1991Aug20.191408.11874@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> Date: 20 Aug 91 19:14:08 GMT References: <1991Aug19.072110.18185@ousrvr.oulu.fi> Sender: guisinge@beaumont (Roger Guisinger 713-283-4027) Organization: MDSSC Lines: 29 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO In article <1991Aug19.072110.18185@ousrvr.oulu.fi>, dfo@tko.vtt.fi (Foxvog Douglas) writes: |> Could someone please post POLITICAL biographies of the new Soviet |> President and the members of the (new?) leading council. |> -- |> doug foxvog |> dfo@tko.vtt.fi I won't refer to ANYONE as the new Soviet President, but the former Soviet Vice President, Gennadi Yanayev has been described by one other net person as a "Stalinist", and by another as a "fascist". I never got to know him personally, but I met him a few times and worked with his staff at the Committee of Youth Organizations from 1976-79. My impression is that he never risks deviation from the party line, and firmly believes his own propaganda about how the Soviet people have benefited so much since the coming of Soviet power. I was astonished that he became Gorbachev's VP because the two seemed to have nothing in common, politically. Gennadi's style seemed more suited to Brezhnev. [Yanayev and his staff were coordinators of the Soviet end of a bilateral US-USSR educational scientific exchange program of which I was cofounder and Director until 1979, called the Forum for US-Soviet Dialogue. I resigned around the time of the Afghanistan invasion, and have had no contact since]. P.S. Anyone on the net been in a Forum conference? One should have been held in July in Moscow, Leningrad and Minsk. Roger Guisinger From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:37:13 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:36:55 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:00:40 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!stanford.edu!eos!aio!beaumont!guisinge From: guisinge@beaumont.jsc.nasa.gov (Roger Guisinger 713-283-4027) Newsgroups: rec.games.chess,talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: Kasparov on Larry King tonight (AUG 19) Message-Id: <1991Aug20.191718.11987@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> Date: 20 Aug 91 19:17:18 GMT References: Sender: guisinge@beaumont (Roger Guisinger 713-283-4027) Organization: MDSSC Lines: 17 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO In article , nolan@helios.unl.edu (Michael Nolan) writes: |> Late word from Eric Schiller that World Chess Champion Gary Kasparov will be |> on Larry King tonight, August 19th. He didn't say if it was the TV or the |> radio show. (Gary is also scheduled to be on the Tonight Show on Tuesday, |> August 20th.) |> |> With the political happenings in the Soviet Union, this should be interesting! |> |> Michael Nolan |> nolan@helios.unl.edu It was. Kasparov is certain the coup will fail, and that rather than trying to reinstate Gorbachev, whom he describes as "politically bankrupt", the new leader will be Boris Yeltsin. Roger Guisinger From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:38:51 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:38:33 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:01:01 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wupost!psuvax1!psuvm!mll110 From: MLL110@psuvm.psu.edu Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: How do you decode messages? Message-Id: <91232.160753MLL110@psuvm.psu.edu> Date: 20 Aug 91 20:07:53 GMT Organization: Penn State University Lines: 14 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO I've seen quite a few postings that look like a bunch of capital letters that I guess were actually written in Russian. I have a Cyrillic font. Are these postings made to be viewed in Cyrillic? If so, could someone explain to me how to do it if I have the font installed? Thanks, Matt |\ /| /\ ~~|~~ ~~|~~ /Matthew Lang | \/ | / \ | | /Pennsylvania State University | | /~~~~\ | | internet--> /mllang@barad-dur.endor.cs.psu.edu ------------------------------------------/lang@vivaldi.psu.edu "To everything there is a season" /MLL110@PSUVM.BITNET <--BITNET From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:39:24 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:39:07 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:01:06 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!aero-c!quark2.aero.org!heirich From: heirich@quark2.aero.org (ALAN HEIRICH) Newsgroups: relcom.politics,talk.politics.soviet Subject: Translations needed! Message-Id: <20AUG199113355475@quark2.aero.org> Date: 20 Aug 91 21:35:00 GMT References: Sender: news@aero.org Organization: The Aerospace Corporation Lines: 6 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO There have been several posts from the USSR, in Russian (apparently). Those of us who cannot read Russian would badly like to know what they say! Can someone take it on themselves to translate these posts as they appear? From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:39:55 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:39:39 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:01:10 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!news.funet.fi!uwasa.fi!fuug!mcsun!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!ig!indycms.bitnet!IQTI400 From: IQTI400@indycms.bitnet (vertigo flutter) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: LIVE from the USSR, Day 2 Message-Id: Date: 20 Aug 91 20:31:03 GMT References: Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" Lines: 12 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO On Tue, 20 Aug 1991 16:14:00 EST Acme Industrial Heavy Objects, Inc. said: >Might I be so bold as to ask for a moratorium on addresses for the sake of >addresses? I've already blown my disk quota once today. And if you have long >lists of information such as addresses of members of Congress, just advertise >them, and if we want them, we'll contact you. > >Karen Segar Good point, Karen, but we would then be inundated with messages posted to the list saying "Please send me that". The better thing is to have them stored in a repository somewhere and make sure everyone knows how to retrieve them...this saves bandwidth *and* the "me too" messages From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:40:28 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:40:11 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:01:14 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!news.funet.fi!uwasa.fi!fuug!mcsun!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!ig!samford.bitnet!GLWARNER From: GLWARNER@samford.bitnet (THE GAR) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Gorbachev arrested in Moscow Message-Id: Date: 20 Aug 91 20:19:17 GMT Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" Organization: Samford University Computer Services Lines: 18 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO I am on hold to a Computer Vendor, and their radio "on-hold" music just reported that a French news agency has reported that Gorbachev's plane landed in Moscow, where he was greeted and arrested by three generals. CNN has confirmed this report, according to the radio news I was listening to. Several coup leaders have reportedly taken ill, and have not been replaced. And now I'm back talking to my sales rep. Sorry for the short clip. Does someone have more info? /++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\ ! Later + Systems Programmer ! ! Gary Warner + Samford University Computer Services ! ! + II TIMOTHY 2:15 ! \+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++/ From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:41:33 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:41:17 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:01:55 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!cunixf.cc.columbia.edu!lamont!vadim From: vadim@ldgo.columbia.edu (vadim levin) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet Subject: Voice from Moscow Message-Id: <1991Aug20.203840.10080@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu> Date: 20 Aug 91 20:38:40 GMT Sender: news@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory Lines: 37 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO I just received e-mail message from Moscow, I took names and address off ( for understandable reasons), otherwise nothing is changed ************************************************************* To all people of good will! We want you to know that the democracy in the USSR is in great danger. The junta of Yanaev, Yazov, Kruchkov etc. try to displace legal power with the help of military forces. They want to return to the old communist system, to put an end to perestroika and glasnost. Under their power there will be no human rights, no disarmament, no market economy. Right now the center of Moscow is surrounded by tanks and soldiers. Thousands of people are standing around the house of Russian Parliament ready to defend Russian Governement and Boris Yeltsin. A lot of mines and plants are on strike. Do not believe that soviet people support this anti-constitutional committee. We, the youth of this country, do not want anybody to bring back the past. We need your moral support! Demand that your governements do not have any affairs with Yanaev and his accomplices. Demand the return of legal president Gorbachev. Down with the communist tyranny! Moscow, August 20, 23.00 As an afterthought - we here may have much more information then they there. vadim levin From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:42:38 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:42:21 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:02:25 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!john From: anasaz!john (John Moore) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,rec.radio.shortwave Subject: Radio Moscow sounds strange tonite Message-Id: <1991Aug20.054723.703@anasaz> Date: 20 Aug 91 05:47:23 GMT Sender: john@anasaz (John Moore) Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, Az Lines: 16 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO I listened to the August 20, 0500Z broadcast of the North American Broadcasting Service of Radio Moscow. The news commentator spoke with a heavy Russian accent, and the text he was reading had grammatical errors in this. In the past 10 years, Radio Moscow's English has sounded as good as that on US nightly news - idiomatic, non-accented, grammatical English - on the occasional times that I monitored it. I wonder if the regular R Moscow staff is in revolt, or has been kicked out. Anyone else notice this? -- John Moore HAM:NJ7E/CAP:T-Bird 381 {ames!ncar!noao!asuvax,mcdphx}!anasaz!john USnail: 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale,AZ 85253 anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu Voice: (602) 951-9326 Wishful Thinking: Long palladium, Short Petroleum Opinion: Support ALL of the bill of rights, INCLUDING the 2nd amendment! Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are all my fault, and no one elses. From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:44:13 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:43:56 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:04:28 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!liuida!uda From: uda@ida.liu.se (Ulf Dahlen) Newsgroups: eunet.politics Subject: Re: Coup in the Soviet Union Message-Id: <1991Aug20.205959.29686@ida.liu.se> Date: 20 Aug 91 20:59:59 GMT References: <1991Aug19.150828.14923@ida.liu.se> <12437@castle.ed.ac.uk> Sender: news@ida.liu.se Distribution: eunet Organization: CIS Dept, Univ of Linkoping, Sweden Lines: 22 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO In article <12437@castle.ed.ac.uk> own@castle.ed.ac.uk (O Morgan) writes: >I hope that the people and the army will resist this coup, and that a >counter-coup will let the democratically elected leaders carry on with >their tasks. (the democratic leadership in no sense includes Gorby, who >was never elected, and is widely hated in the USSR.) I think you are quite right. I just hope that it won't develop into a bloody civil war. The danger for that is very real. I fear anything can happen. But shouldn't Bush have made an even stronger statement? It seems to me that most world leaders are "slow starters" and time is of the essence here. The situation develops rapidly. On the other hand, the coup leaders do not give the impression of really knowing what they are doing. They are slow too. __________ Ulf Dahlen Work: Dept of Computer & Info Science, University of Linkoping, Sweden Email: uda@ida.liu.se, uda@liuida.UUCP Home: Troskaregatan 51:23, S-583 30 Linkoping, Sweden "The beginning is a very delicate time." From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:44:47 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:44:29 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:05:46 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!kira!emily!blaise From: blaise@emily.uvm.edu (Christopher Blaise) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: The Dismise of the USSR? Message-Id: <1991Aug20.203429.11223@uvm.edu> Date: 20 Aug 91 20:34:29 GMT Sender: news@uvm.edu Organization: University of Vermont - EMBA Computing Facility Lines: 29 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Listening to various opinions and talk shows (most notably CNN's Crossfire), there's one scenario that sounds...well, either hopeful or totally plausable..what do others think? It is apparent that this commitee is the last remants of a failed experiment. With enough of the people, army, etc. resisting and overthrowing this coup, is possible for the USSR to disband, or cease to be a country, leaving Russia and the Baltic states as their own governments. If the Russian Federation can overthrow this coup in Moscow, are they truly dedicated toward restoring the old government. The Baltic states obviously do not want to remain a part of the USSR - does Russia wish them to remain a part of whatever of a country remains? On a related note, what did the treaty that was to be signed today /yesterday encompass? Was it as big as say, giving the republics a power proportional to the states under the Articles of Conferation, or was it simply more of a current US Federal-to-state power ratio? Very interested in hearing thoughts and opinions... TTYL Chris -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Christopher Blaise - blaise@emily.uvm.edu (Fido at 1:325/111) | | Pee Wee Herman at Court "No, I don't need a lawyer - I can get myself off!"| +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:45:52 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:45:34 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:07:18 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!olivea!bu.edu!bucasb!reynolds From: reynolds@park.bu.edu (John Reynolds) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: The coup, information, and coverage Message-Id: Date: 20 Aug 91 21:36:58 GMT References: <35056@hydra.gatech.EDU> <1991Aug19.235958.20099@Veritas.COM> Sender: news@bu.edu Organization: Boston University Center for Adaptive Systems Lines: 17 In-Reply-To: oleg@Veritas.COM's message of 19 Aug 91 23:59:58 GMT Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO >>>>> On 19 Aug 91 23:59:58 GMT, oleg@Veritas.COM (Oleg Kiselev) said: Oleg> No, it could not be averted by economic bribes. The coup seems to be by Oleg> a group of high-placed government and military officials who were in fear Oleg> of losing power in the current wave of transition to a decentralized Oleg> confederacy. These are the very people who have been aacusing the West of Oleg> trying to take over and destabilize USSR through econiomic aid. Wouldn't it have been impossible even to have CONCEIVED a coup attempt if Gorbachev had, for example, returned from the G7 conference with solid offers of economic aid? I just learned that three of the coup committee, including the head of the KGB have just resigned their positions, two of them due to illness. Can anyone corroborate this? What details are available about disunity within the committee? From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:46:25 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:46:08 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:07:32 +0200 Xref: cri.dk eunet.politics:347 talk.politics.soviet:1203 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!unido!tpki!olaf From: olaf@tpki.toppoint.de (Olaf Schlueter) Newsgroups: eunet.politics,alt.activism,talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: Coup in the Soviet Union Message-Id: <10553@tpki.toppoint.de> Date: 20 Aug 91 12:52:29 GMT References: <1991Aug19.150828.14923@ida.liu.se> Followup-To: eunet.politics Organization: Toppoint Mailbox e.V., Kiel, BRD Lines: 27 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO uda@ida.liu.se (Ulf Dahlen) writes: >The coup in the Soviet Union is really shocking! Did anyone of you >expect this now? And the way it happened? It is. And to me it came out of a pretty blue sky. The only thing that was not that surprising was who did it. It may be a prove that Gorbatschow was not as responsible for what Pugo did in the Balticum as some of us thought. During the last year I saw a couple of postings from a soviet machine located in Moscow. Are you still on the net ? Since newspapers, tv and radio stations are now controlled by the junta, you may be interested to get news from the outside about what is going on in SU. I am afraid that the majority of people in SU is not sure whether the coup is legal. The junta claims that Gorbatschow is ill. This would legalize the takeover by the vice president. But it is definitely not true. French television reported yesterday, that Gorbatschow has been brought to Moscow on Saturday and ordered to sign a declaration of retreat. He refused to do that! About where he actually is, there exists several disagreeing news: he is either back on Krim, brought to Sewastopol or in Moscow (the source for the first two news is french tv again, the last one is from Interfax). All sources agree that he is arrested. Olaf Schlueter, Sandkuhle 4-6, 2300 Kiel, FRG, Toppoint Mailbox e.V. olaf@tpki.toppoint.de, schlut@oski.toppoint.de, ...!unido!tpki.toppoint.de!olaf "Wenn Sie sich nicht fuer Frauen interessieren - wir verkaufen auch gebrauchte Autos." N.N. From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:47:00 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:46:42 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:08:03 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!psinntp!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!lll-winken!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!m.cs.uiuc.edu!vela!umich!terminator!home.merit.edu!clw From: clw@home.merit.edu (Chris Weider) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Communism Message-Id: <1991Aug20.172409.21497@terminator.cc.umich.edu> Date: 20 Aug 91 17:24:09 GMT Sender: usenet@terminator.cc.umich.edu (usenet news) Organization: Merit Network, Inc. Lines: 30 Originator: clw@home.merit.edu Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO The basic tenets of communism, as expressed in the phrase 'from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs', seems to me to break down for large groups for the following reasons: 1) the first concept, from each according to their ability, can be implemented in one of two ways for a worker 'Vera'. Either Vera can be sufficiently knowledgable about the needs of her society to realize her duty and do it (which requires near-perfect information about a society, which is possible for groups of 10 or 100 but not for groups of 10 or 100 million), or someone can tell her what is needed, and what she should do. In the second case, Vera is accepting the authority and knowedge of the other person as to the proper application of her labor, and in this we have the seeds of the state. Even with the purest motives in the world, and no selfishness, something which fulfils either the role of the state (USSR) or the market (US) must grow into place when the communistic society grows too large for near-perfect information. 2) the second concept breaks down because the word 'needs' is undefinable in concrete terms. Certainly food and water are 'needs', but is a color tv? a new car? an extremely expensive life-saving medicine? a space station? And what of the needs of society? In all but the most primitive societies, there is an excess of labor over what is required to feed, clothe, water and shelter the laborers and their families. Who determines what shall be done with that excess of labor? I'm sorry, but the state will never 'wither away', especially in the absence of any other force directing excess labor. Chris Weider clw@merit.edu Merit Network From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:49:13 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:48:55 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:10:43 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!psinntp!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!gasser@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu From: gasser@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Michael Gasser) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Fighting at Russian Parliament Message-Id: <1991Aug20.174717.690@news.cs.indiana.edu> Date: 20 Aug 91 22:47:12 GMT Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University Lines: 10 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO According to reports on National Public Radio here, there has been shooting at the Russian Parliament building, where Yeltsin is holed up, during the last hour or two. Some deaths have already been reported. It's not clear how many people, tanks, etc. are defending the building. -- Michael Gasser Indiana University, Computer Science Department Bloomington, IN 47405 USA gasser@cs.indiana.edu (812) 855-7078 From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:49:46 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:49:27 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:12:07 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!midway!quads!rjh1 From: rjh1@quads.uchicago.edu (robert j hinde) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet,soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality Subject: corrected number of people at USSR lesbian/gay rallies Keywords: gay, lesbian, bisexual, USSR, Soviet Message-Id: <1991Aug20.214540.12434@midway.uchicago.edu> Date: 20 Aug 91 21:45:40 GMT Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (NewsMistress) Organization: University of Chicago -- Dept. of Chemistry Lines: 13 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO I have received the following message from a volunteer with the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission, which helped organize this year's gay and lesbian conferences in Moscow and St. Petersburg. > ... please note that 20,000 people did *not* march through the > streets of Moscow demanding equal rights for lesbian, gay, and > bisexual people. 20,000 was the total number of people who > participated in the conferences in both cities, [Moscow and > St. Petersburg] including the film festivals that accompanied > the conferences ... My apologies for the error. From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:50:19 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:50:02 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:13:02 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!anachem From: anachem@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (mark s gilstrap) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: Church in Revolution Message-Id: <1991Aug20.234322.528@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Date: 20 Aug 91 23:43:22 GMT References: Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington Lines: 65 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO In article "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" writes: >One of the most important variables in the current >situation in the Soviet Union is the Russian >Orthodox Church. >Where will the patriarch and the leading hierarchs >of the church give their support? >Tonight's VREMYA broadcast did not carry an explicit message >from the church, but there was what perhaps was an implicit >message. Extensive coverage was given to a beautiful, >marvelous, typical Russian Orthodox church ceremony in--of all >places--the grandest, capital cathedral inside the Kremlin >itself, the cathedral of the Dormition of the Blessed Virgin. >This is a place where very few masses have been permitted >since the Bolshevik coup. In fact, I know of only five such >services. None was permitted between Easter 1918 and Oct. 1989, >when the church marked the 400th anniversary of the establishment >of the Russian patriarchate. >This 1991 one was a ceremony in conjunction with the conference of >expatriots. It is easy to interpret this kind of coverage >as an overture from the ruling committee to the church >that signifies continuity with the effective policy of the recent >past, which is a policy of alliance among the KGB, Church, >army, and central committee of the Communist Party. I expect >that alliance to continue, but I would welcome evidence to >the contrary. Yesterday (the 19th) was the Feast of the Transfiguration, one of the 12 great feasts of the Orthodox Church. This is one of the feasts of light in that it commemorates the shining forth of the divinity of Christ in uncreated light on Mt Tabor in the prescence of Moses and Elijah seen by Peter, James and John shortly before the Crucifixion. It is not coincidental that the powers of darkness chose this feast of light to attempt to disfigure Russia anew. Be it known that the free Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia took notice of the events on this great feast. Many thousands of believers in many parishes in the free world attended Moleiben's to the New Martyrs of Russia asking for intercession in the struggles to "free the homeland from the cruel godless ones." In St Louis the major network affiliates dispatched satelite crews to my church and covered both the Festal Liturgy and the prayers for the Salvation of Russia. May the Patriarchate not fall into the Sergianist obedience they know so well. May they recognize in their own circumstances the reality of the Martyrdom of their predecessors and glorify the memory of the sacrificial offerings made in the past. May the blood of the New Martyrs be for the deliverance of Russia, not as a point of contention and further cause for unrepentant behavior. The only hope for Russia rests in her repentance. Mark Gilstrap 500 West 13th St Bloomington, Indiana 47404 From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:50:52 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:50:35 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:13:30 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!hsdndev!husc-news.harvard.edu!zariski!zeleny From: zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: 20.08.91 11:45 Message-Id: <1991Aug20.154717.2686@husc3.harvard.edu> Date: 20 Aug 91 19:47:15 GMT References: Organization: Harvard University Dept. of Mathematics Lines: 18 Nntp-Posting-Host: zariski.harvard.edu Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO In article korotay@kremvax.hq.demos.su writes: >mOSKWA 20.08.91 11^AS. 45MIN. > >oT ZDANIQ dOMA pRAWITELXSTWA rsfsr SOOB]ILI, ^TO >rQZANSKAQ, tULXSKAQ I tAMANSKAQ DIWIZII PERE[LI >NA STORONU PRAWITELXSTWA rOSSII. Good call. Fuck `em hard, baby. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ | ``If there are no Platonic ideals, then what did we fight for?'' | | (A Spanish anarchist, after 1938) | | Mikhail Zeleny Harvard | | 872 Massachusetts Ave., Apt. 707 doesn't | | Cambridge, Massachusetts 02139 think | | (617) 661-8151 so | | email zeleny@math.harvard.edu or zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu | \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:51:58 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:51:41 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:14:52 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!GAUSS.CASR.FAU.EDU!qiangli From: qiangli@GAUSS.CASR.FAU.EDU (Charlie Li) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: USSR Crisis Update 8/20/91 Message-Id: <9108210006.AA23842@gauss.casr.fau.edu> Date: 21 Aug 91 00:06:24 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 149 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO PRODIGY 08/20/91 Standoff Turns Violent Three persons were shot dead outside the Russian Parliament in Moscow by Soviet tank crews as armored vehicles crashed through a barricade guarding the building, news reports say. Two Coup Leaders Reported Ill Two leaders of the coup that toppled Mikhail Gorbachev are ill and no longer functioning as members of the ruling junta, reports say. Prime Minister Valentin Pavlov has high blood pressure, state television announced, and Defense Minister Dmitri Yazov is suffering from an unspecified illness, according to 2 unconfirmed reports. Both were senior leaders of the 8-man Emergency Committee that replaced Gorbachev Monday. But Politburo member Mikhail Surkov told Reuters reports of the resignations are not true. Pavlov is confined to bed, an announcer on the leading evening television news program Vremya said. "We have just received information that on the morning of Aug 19 [Monday], the Prime Minister of the USSR, Valentin Pavlov, had an attack of high blood pressure," the report said. "As a result of medical treatment, his state improved. Yet, after the evening meeting of the Cabinet of Ministers, it got worse again," the report said. "At present, he must remain in bed," it said. The report said Vitaly Doguzhiyev, a deputy prime minister since 1989, is taking over Pavlov's duties. It was not immediately clear whether Pavlov had a previous history of heart or circulatory problems. Also Tuesday, Vladimir Lukin, head of the Russian parliament's Foreign Relations Committee, said Yazov, 67, had taken ill, and that his duties in the new government were temporarily being filled by Gen Mikhail Moiseyev, the chief of the general staff. A duty officer at the Defense Ministry Press Center said Tuesday night he could neither confirm nor deny the report. Tanks Close In Earlier Tuesday, Yeltsin, president of the Russian republic, told British Prime Minister John Major that tanks were approaching the Parliament building in Moscow where he is headquartered. "He believed he had not very much time left," Major said. But a Russian republic official said Gennady Yanayev, the acting Soviet president, has given Yeltsin his "word of honor" that the Russian Parliament building will not be stormed Tuesday night. The tank movement came hours after Yeltsin gave a fiery speech denouncing government hard-liners. Tanks Move A clandestine radio station inside the Parliament building, Moscow Echo, said tanks rolled to within a mile of the building and that an assault was feared imminent. Several tanks were seen traveling from the airfield toward the Russian Parliament building along a major street, but turned off before reaching the building, according to a producer at the nearby NBC News office. Streets around the Parliament building were blocked off. But many soldiers are going over to Yeltsin's side. Yeltsin was quoted as saying 2 elite divisions expressed a willingess to defend Parliament. Soviet Foreign Minister Also Reported "Sick" "The junta that has come to power will not stop at anything to keep that power," Yeltsin said earlier Tuesday to a crowd of about 150,000. "They understand that things have reached the point that if they lose, they will lose not only their armchairs, but they will be seated on court benches." Even as he spoke, there were indications the hard-liners are moving to try to silence Gorbachev allies. A Soviet Foreign Ministry official said Foreign Minister Alexander Bessmertnykh had taken "sick" after returning from vacation. Coal Miners Strike The Soviet official said, however, that Bessmertnykh is "expected to return to work in a few days." The coup leaders have also claimed that Gorbachev is ill, but few believe it. Gorbachev has not been heard from since Monday's coup, which came while he was vacationing in the Crimea. In an economic threat to the new government, coal miners in Siberia and the Soviet far north heeded Yeltsin's call and walked off the job. But a general strike, also called for by Yeltsin, is failing to materialize. Where Is Gorbachev? Gorbachev Said Held Under KGB Guard Former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev is being held in the Crimea with 2 key aides under KGB guard, a senior official of the Russian republic said Tuesday. Sergei Stankevich says Monday's coup began when an unnamed Soviet military officer gave the order to block the presidential plane from leaving Foros, the location of the presidential retreat, about 700 miles south of Moscow. Gorbachev's staff and his high-tech communications gear were flown out soon after, leaving Gorbachev isolated. KGB security forces took full control at the scene, he says. Reported Attempt to Free Him Stankevich's account is at odds with the Emergency Committee's official announcement, which said it had taken power because of Gorbachev's ill health. ABC News reports that some local KGB authorities attempted to free Gorbachev but failed. The network says the attempt occurred Monday and may explain unconfirmed reports that Gorbachev had left Crimea. Bush Returns to Maine Sending the Right Signal Bush Resumes His Vacation With an Eye on Moscow President Bush has resumed his vacation and is back in Kennebunkport, Me. Before returning from an overnight visit to Washington, Bush told reporters to expect a busier schedule during his remaining 2 holiday weeks in Kennebunkport, Me. Bush was mindful of criticism of his decision to proceed with his vacation after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait last year. "I'm going to spend a little more time--maybe quite a bit more time--in various formal ways that you will see unveiled in staying on top of this situation," Bush said. "I don't want to send a signal, by sitting around the Oval Office looking busy, that the American people should expect an instant satisfactory answer to this problem," he added. Bush also announced Robert Strauss, sworn in as US ambassador to the Soviet Union Tuesday, would travel to Moscow immediately on a fact-finding mission and report back to him "in the next several days." Earlier Tuesday, Bush said he spoke by phone with Yeltsin and assured him of US support for restoring Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev to power. From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:52:32 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:52:16 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:15:39 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!news.funet.fi!hydra!klaava!cc.helsinki.fi!leisti From: leisti@cc.helsinki.fi Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: Soviet Postal System Message-Id: <1991Aug21.104529.1@cc.helsinki.fi> Date: 21 Aug 91 08:45:29 GMT References: <1991Aug20.162330.5722@infonode.ingr.com> Sender: news@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Uutis Ankka) Organization: University of Helsinki Lines: 12 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO margaret@infonode.ingr.com (Margaret Wiginton) writes: > I'm sending a registered letter to a friend in Moscow > today. Is there even a remote chance that it will be > delivered? Probably very remote. A peace group I'm a member of tried sending an invitation to a Soviet peace activist several times, to enable him to attend a conference, but he never got any of the letters. And this was before the coup. But you can always try. -- Teemu Leisti / U. of Helsinki, Finland / leisti@cc.helsinki.fi From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:53:04 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:52:48 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:15:58 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!ar950 From: ar950@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Casacchia) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Gorby Lament Message-Id: <1991Aug21.001722.28713@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Date: 21 Aug 91 00:17:22 GMT Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA) Lines: 7 Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns10.ins.cwru.edu Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO There once came a man from Moscow who for 6 long years said, "I know how!" Then one night on vacation they took away his nation while our experts on TV all said, "WOW!" From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:55:15 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:54:57 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:17:07 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!news.funet.fi!uta!tijoma From: tijoma@uta.fi (Jorma M{ntyl{) Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,talk.politics.soviet Subject: Radio in the USSR - monitoring report from Finland, part II Message-Id: <3159@kielo.uta.fi> Date: 21 Aug 91 06:43:14 GMT Reply-To: tijoma@uta.fi (Jorma M{ntyl{) Organization: University of Tampere, Finland Lines: 88 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO MONITORING REPORT FROM FINLAND, PART II Here is a summary of what I heard from my radio yesterday and this morning (Aug.20-21, rx Icom IC-R71E + long-wire). Now there were three national radio channels. Different programmes could be heard on 171 and 234 KHz. Radio Mayak was now on the air as usually on 198, 549 and 612 KHz. All national channels were broadcasting messages of the 8-member junta. -Latvian radio was audible with weak signals on 576, 1350 and 1422 KHz. The station is now under the controll of the junta and was broadcasting their messages in Latvian. The signals were unusually weak, the station must use reduced power. -Estonian radio was/is the only radio station in the Baltic which is not under the controll of the junta. Their frequencies are 711, 810, 1035, 1215, 1332 and 5925 KHz. All heard with clear and loud signals here in Finland. The Finnish programme was aired as usually on 1035 and 5925 KHz. Later I heard their new declaration of independence on 5925 KHz. This morning when I came to my work, I listened to their transmission on 1035 in my car. The signal is so strong that I can pick it up with my car radio. The Finnish news-agency STT just told that army troops have partly occupied the radio- and tv-station in Tallinn, but not that part of the building from where the radio-programmes are broadcast ! That is why the station is still on the air on 1035 and 5925 KHz. However, it seems that it is only a question of minutes or hours when these transmissions are ceased. Listen to 1035 and 5925 KHz - the later frequency should be audible in the whole Europe. -Estonian radio told in their Finnish programme yesterday that Radio Echo of Moscow is again on the air ! According to Estonian radio they are now broad- casting on 650 KHz. However, I was not able to hear the Echo of Moscow, neither on 650 nor 1206 KHz. Perhaps they are using some low-power pirate transmitter instead of the normally used 10 kW transmitter on 1206 KHz. -Radio Petrozavodsk was heard in Finnish at 1510 UTC on 765 KHz from the Karelian ASSR. News and weather report trying to sound like nothing has happened. -On 1512 KHz I heard something very curious. This transmitter is located - as far as I remember - somewhere in Eastern Estonia or Western Russia and usually it relays Radio Mayak. Yesterday they were broadcasting declarations of Boris Yeltsin directed to Soviet soldiers. I don't understand Russian but it was easy to understand that the junta was called "group of stalinist criminals" ('gruppa stalinitski kriminalnii'). I wonder if this station is on the air today... Unfortunately declarations did not help when the army attacked the radio- and tv-station in Tallinn last night. -Radio Leningrad was broadcasting own programmes on 801 KHz. They had a report from some meeting where people condemned the junta. According to Finnish television the Leningrad radio & tv is still under the controll of the radical local leadership. The television station is also reported to openly criticize the junta. Unfortunately we are not able to watch Lenin- grad TV in Finland. The Finnish news-agency STT reported that army troops have not tried to occupy Leningrad but the whole area is free. This also means that Radio Leningrad on 801 KHz is continously on the air with programmes hostile to the junta. Their transmitter on 801 KHz is very strong and it can be heard widely in Northern Europe. -Radio Moscow foreign service is run by hard-liners. The Finnish programme is now what it was during the Brezhnev era. Their frequencies are 1494, 7115, 9800, 11675 and 11950 KHz. Progrmmes in other Scandinavian languages are also aired on these frequencies, as well as Radio Moscow World Service directed to Northern Europe & British Isles during night-time. -The Finnish news-agency STT reports that news-agencies TASS and Interfax as well as some news-papers are openly publishing material which is hostile to the junta. -No jamming noted. People in the USSR are able to hear foreign radio stations on medium- and short-waves, and also domestic radio stations hostile to the junta. SUMMARY The coup in the USSR is curious. It seems that the 8-member junta has serious troubles in taking over the media of the country. There are loopholes in censorship. Most of the radio stations & other media is controlled by the junta but there are radio & tv-stations and journalists who just don't follow the orders of the junta. I think there are two alternative explanations. The first one is that the junta is weaker than expected. Rumous about the inner split in the junta could support this theory. The other explanation is that the junta has not used all the power and force it could use. #Jorma Mantyla #University of Tampere #Finland From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:55:51 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:55:33 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:17:17 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!crdgw1!rpi!batcomputer!theory.TC.Cornell.EDU!gaarder From: gaarder@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Steve Gaarder) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Simple transliterator for Russian Message-Id: <1991Aug21.002925.17332@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> Date: 21 Aug 91 00:29:25 GMT Sender: news@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu Organization: Cornell Theory Center Lines: 38 Originator: gaarder@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU Nntp-Posting-Host: theory.tc.cornell.edu Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO Here is a simple program that takes the Russian-language postings and changes the transliteration to make it more readable to English-based eyes. This does not translate, nor does it display Cyrillic (I'm working on the latter, & will post when done). The conversion does not attempt to represent each Russian letter uniquely; 'y' is used for the "i kratkoye", the non-palatizing i, and as a prefix for the letters ya and yu. Similarly, I used 'e' for both e and "e oborotnaya". The soft sign is ' and the hard sign `. You can muck with the table if you prefer a different scheme. The program is used as a filter - feed it the article on standard input. I call the program "tl" and the source file "tl.c". To compile on Unix, save the following code in tl.c and type "cc tl.c -o tl". It can be used in rn with the command "| tl | more". It sure makes english text come out strange! Steve Gaarder gaarder@theory.tc.cornell.edu gaarder@anarres.ithaca.ny.us ------------------------------cut here------------------------------ #include char transtbl[64][5] = {"yu", "a", "b", "ts", "d" , "e", "f", "g", "kh", "i", "y" , "k", "l", "m", "n", "o", "p", "ya", "r" , "s", "t", "u", "zh", "v", "'", "y", "z", "sh", "e", "shch", "ch", "`", "YU", "A", "B", "TS", "D" , "E", "F", "G", "KH", "I", "Y" , "K", "L", "M", "N", "O", "P", "YA", "R" , "S", "T", "U", "ZH", "V", "'", "Y", "Z", "SH", "E", "SHCH", "CH", "`" }; main() { int c; while ((c = getchar()) != EOF) if ( c < 0x40) putchar(c); else printf("%s",transtbl[c-0x40]); } From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:56:57 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:56:39 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:17:45 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!mcsun!uunet!brunix!dy From: dy@cs.brown.edu Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: translation into English Message-Id: <83725@brunix.UUCP> Date: 21 Aug 91 00:51:21 GMT Sender: brunix!news Reply-To: dy@cs.brown.edu () Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science Lines: 15 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO There's been a number of articles in Russian posted by netters from within the USSR. I gather they contain the latest update concerning the situation in the Soviet Union. Unfortunately not all of us read Russian. So if there's anyone out there that would be kind enough to translate these articles into English, your effort will be greatly appreicated. Thank you. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ David Yang | If I were wrong, then one would have been enough! dy@cs.brown.edu | - Albert Einstein, on "100 Authors Against Einstein" uunet!brunix!dy dy@browncs.bitnet Brown University Prov RI 02912 From cri.dk!news Thu Aug 22 22:57:30 1991 remote from ddc Received: by sandes.cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:57:12 +0200 Received: by cri.dk; Thu, 22 Aug 91 02:18:55 +0200 Path: cri.dk!dkuug!sunic!kth.se!eru!bloom-beacon!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ysub!psuvm!mll110 From: MLL110@psuvm.psu.edu Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: Simple transliterator for Russian Message-Id: <91232.232846MLL110@psuvm.psu.edu> Date: 21 Aug 91 03:28:46 GMT References: <1991Aug21.002925.17332@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> Organization: Penn State University Lines: 10 Apparently-To: ns@sandes.cri.dk Status: RO I'm glad that was posted. I have a Cyrillic screen driver for the pc which is only about 6000 bytes. I got some critism about posting it, so if anyone wants it,I can e-mail it to them. |\ /| /\ ~~|~~ ~~|~~ /Matthew Lang | \/ | / \ | | /Pennsylvania State University | | /~~~~\ | | internet--> /mllang@barad-dur.endor.cs.psu.edu ------------------------------------------/lang@vivaldi.psu.edu "To everything there is a season" /MLL110@PSUVM.BITNET <--BITNET